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Calgary4LIfe · 02-24-2021, 12:27 PM

Wow.. lots of posts about Hartley vs Gulutzan vs Peters vs Ward. I will throw my two cents in while we are at it.

Hartley was by far the best coach by many metrics. The two I think that are the most important here is "Expectations vs Results", and what a coach actually is responsible for.

1) Expectations vs Results: Can anyone say with a straight face that any coach, for any period of time, actually exceeded expectations since Hartley? Darryl being the only other one in the last 20 years to do so. People like to say it was 'lightning in a bottle', but they forget all the accolades the Flames received in the season prior to the one in which they made the playoffs. From about halfway through that season, it seemed like the Flames turned a corner, and they were playing well. How do I remember? It was Aaron Ward that predicted the Flames to make the playoffs the following season, and it was because of that second half. In the next season, Flames stumbled for sure, but it had a lot to do with the goalies. Just look at the Flames win/loss record when Ramo was in net after he returned from the AHL. The Flames couldn't get respectable goaltending outside of that.

2) What does a coach do, by definition. If you hire a 'life coach', or if you play a sport, and you hire a coach for whatever it is, what do you expect out of it? You expect that coach to show you how to be better. To demonstrate proper techniques, give you some insight, etc. Out of all the coaches that Calgary has had recently, I argue that Bob was the only one that did that. Again, how do I know this? All you had to do with listen to the other team's media broadcast when the Flames were on the road. They marvelled at how Hartley had his team on the ice in what looked like a real practice rather than a game-day skate, and how much he would work with individual players one-on-one, demonstrating what they should be doing, actual hands-on instruction.

Say what you will about Hartley, but IMO, he was the best coach this team has had for a number of years. He was the perfect coach to enter into a rebuild with because he had the patience to take a much more active role in teaching kids the finer aspects of the game, and even making a lot of them 'believe in themselves' (remember Wotherspoon citing that Ward told him he doesn't need to just be a defensive defencemen, but that he can also chip in offensively?, or getting Monahan to play a more completely 2-way game?).

He was also the perfect coach to take over the team and get that culture out. I didn't agree much with what Feaster talked about during his time here, but he was BANG ON when he spoke out about this mediocrity disease permeating through the organization. Hartley I thought dealt with that fairly effectively. This team played hard under him, and everyone loved the Flames back then.

I am not saying that it was wrong for Hartley to have been fired. I also think it is wrong to think that Hartley wouldn't have tweaked his systems if given better players. IMO, he was good at figuring out how a team should play. He deserved to get canned because of his overly-zealous disciplinarian methods - those were completely out-dated. But hey, at least he didn't go around hitting players like Peters! Either way, I have no problem for the firing if that's what it really was about.

Maybe Ward ends up proving himself to be better than what we have seen. I don't know. It sure feels like the clock is ticking on him. I will be interested to see how he does tonight specifically. Not because 'his job is on the line' over tonight's game, but because I know Toronto will come back with some changes, and I want to see if Ward can come up with some adjustments on the fly.

I feel that coaching is being tested much more this year than in previous years. I think the better able that coaches are at making in-game adjustments, I think the more success that they will have this year, and the more coaches that will be weeded-out as well. Ward seems to be failing so far - I thought Green out-coached him and got his team that was going down the tubes straightened-out somewhat, and have them playing a decent 2-way game. To his credit, I think Ward has out-coached Sheldon Keefe so far, and I hope it continues tonight.

02-24-2021, 12:27 PM	#461
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	Wow.. lots of posts about Hartley vs Gulutzan vs Peters vs Ward. I will throw my two cents in while we are at it. Hartley was by far the best coach by many metrics. The two I think that are the most important here is "Expectations vs Results", and what a coach actually is responsible for. 1) Expectations vs Results: Can anyone say with a straight face that any coach, for any period of time, actually exceeded expectations since Hartley? Darryl being the only other one in the last 20 years to do so. People like to say it was 'lightning in a bottle', but they forget all the accolades the Flames received in the season prior to the one in which they made the playoffs. From about halfway through that season, it seemed like the Flames turned a corner, and they were playing well. How do I remember? It was Aaron Ward that predicted the Flames to make the playoffs the following season, and it was because of that second half. In the next season, Flames stumbled for sure, but it had a lot to do with the goalies. Just look at the Flames win/loss record when Ramo was in net after he returned from the AHL. The Flames couldn't get respectable goaltending outside of that. 2) What does a coach do, by definition. If you hire a 'life coach', or if you play a sport, and you hire a coach for whatever it is, what do you expect out of it? You expect that coach to show you how to be better. To demonstrate proper techniques, give you some insight, etc. Out of all the coaches that Calgary has had recently, I argue that Bob was the only one that did that. Again, how do I know this? All you had to do with listen to the other team's media broadcast when the Flames were on the road. They marvelled at how Hartley had his team on the ice in what looked like a real practice rather than a game-day skate, and how much he would work with individual players one-on-one, demonstrating what they should be doing, actual hands-on instruction. Say what you will about Hartley, but IMO, he was the best coach this team has had for a number of years. He was the perfect coach to enter into a rebuild with because he had the patience to take a much more active role in teaching kids the finer aspects of the game, and even making a lot of them 'believe in themselves' (remember Wotherspoon citing that Ward told him he doesn't need to just be a defensive defencemen, but that he can also chip in offensively?, or getting Monahan to play a more completely 2-way game?). He was also the perfect coach to take over the team and get that culture out. I didn't agree much with what Feaster talked about during his time here, but he was BANG ON when he spoke out about this mediocrity disease permeating through the organization. Hartley I thought dealt with that fairly effectively. This team played hard under him, and everyone loved the Flames back then. I am not saying that it was wrong for Hartley to have been fired. I also think it is wrong to think that Hartley wouldn't have tweaked his systems if given better players. IMO, he was good at figuring out how a team should play. He deserved to get canned because of his overly-zealous disciplinarian methods - those were completely out-dated. But hey, at least he didn't go around hitting players like Peters! Either way, I have no problem for the firing if that's what it really was about. Maybe Ward ends up proving himself to be better than what we have seen. I don't know. It sure feels like the clock is ticking on him. I will be interested to see how he does tonight specifically. Not because 'his job is on the line' over tonight's game, but because I know Toronto will come back with some changes, and I want to see if Ward can come up with some adjustments on the fly. I feel that coaching is being tested much more this year than in previous years. I think the better able that coaches are at making in-game adjustments, I think the more success that they will have this year, and the more coaches that will be weeded-out as well. Ward seems to be failing so far - I thought Green out-coached him and got his team that was going down the tubes straightened-out somewhat, and have them playing a decent 2-way game. To his credit, I think Ward has out-coached Sheldon Keefe so far, and I hope it continues tonight.