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Calgary4LIfe · 02-18-2021, 12:46 PM

If your definition of a proper rebuild and competitive team is winning the cup, maybe sports isn't for you.

The Stanley Cup is the goal of course. However, we have seen great teams miss out on the cup due to injuries, lucky-bounces, running into a team that is riding red-hot and just seems to have your team's number - that stuff happens. Personally, winning the cup is what I hope for, but not necessarily what I expect.

What I expect is for the team I cheer for to be a legitimate contender for the cup. For a core group of players to have a few runs during their prime years. 3rd round, 4th round... to have success in the regular season as well.

A properly rebuilt team shouldn't be a bubble-team. It shouldn't be 1st round fodder every time when it gets to the show.

Is this a failed rebuild? Does the coach need replacing? Both?

I don't see a Stanley Cup finalist team in the North Division. I just don't. Sorry Toronto and Montreal Fans, but your teams aren't good enough.

With that being said, is Calgary? Absolutely not. In the North Division, the Flames aren't doing so hot. 4 game series against Vancouver, and who was the better team? I would say Vancouver.

Calgary was backstopped by Markstrom who is fricken good. Of course he is part of the team, and that counts. No apologies there. Dig a little deeper... Gaudreau is scoring right now at an insane (and dare I say, unsustainable?) shooting percentage. He has looked great - he really does, and I was an advocate for NOT trading him away. He will come back down to earth in terms of shooting percentage, however. I am sure he will still be playing great though - and I say that sincerely. I love Gaudreau. When he comes back down to his normal shooting percentage, suddenly things are going to look worse.

Things aren't looking great. Vancouver out-played Calgary. It seemed they had a better system that nullified Calgary's breakouts. They played a MUCH better defensive game all-around in my opinion, especially as the games went on.

Here is the conclusion that I have come to:

Gaudreau MAY not be good enough to win a cup.
Monahan MAY not be good enough to win a cup.
Tkachuk... Lindholm... Backlund... Dube... Mangiapane.. the rest of the forwards and defence, and even Markstrom (and Rittich). This team MAY not be good enough to win a cup.

I also think that Ward may not be good enough to win a cup. Anyone want to argue that point?

Now, the Flames can go out and trade some of the core and try to get core pieces back - though the off-season is a much more likely scenario to do so. However, you also waste a year. More prime seasons and team-friendly deals wasted, I may add.

It is a heck of a lot easier to change the coach. Yeah, some people will say: "Another coach? Maybe if you keep doing the same things and expecting different results, then you are crazy." (I thought I would get the jump on that statement - I HATE that statement, it is an idiotic statement that is not something that either Einstein stated or is even close to the definition of insanity!! grrr).

Can anyone make a case as to why Ward is RIGHT? Can anyone make a legitimate case as to why Ward is the right coach for this team, and that he is making the most of the team on paper in terms of results on the ice? Any rationale as to what makes you confident that he is part of the solution, other than the Flames have gone through a bunch of coaches already?

Flames have also tried Leivo, Nordstrom, Simon, Bennett, Mangiapane, Ritchie (and I believe Dube - but maybe I am wrong on that one). So I guess since they tried all these different players on the top line RW, and none of them worked out, then might as well just keep Ritchie there for good then, right? It is the exact same argument, and for me, it is a non-starter.

I think Ward was the wrong call. I would have preferred that Treliving did a search and retained an experienced head coach with a decent track record after Peters was let go. Fine - let's see what Ward can do... and I wasn't impressed (and neither were a lot of other people here too).

I think good teams have good coaching. Most coaches have a shelf-life, but it is crazy to be a hockey fan and not see how much a coach can impact a team. We saw it with Darryl Sutter here in Calgary (and just look at the turn around in LA when he got there!!). Berube in St. Louis was huge (unproven, but an impact nonetheless).

Want to change the culture on your team? You have two choices - change a bunch of the players, or change the coach. Have a team that doesn't feel like starting on time over and over again? Change the players, or change the coach.

In my opinion, the coach is who is responsible for the players' effort. If they are not giving a full effort, well, he has to address it and manage it. If the players don't cooperate, the coach benches that player, if the team doesn't cooperate, run exhausting drills. If the players are still not cooperating, you escalate to the GM and let him know that players x,y,z are not team players, and you want them moved. Sure, it may cost you your job, but you are toast anyway if this doesn't get resolved.

It may very well be the players. I am not saying it is absolutely not. I do think that this is Calgary's last and best shot at winning a cup with the current core, and the team friendly deals that they have. Flames are going to have to address the Gaudreau situation THIS off-season. Maybe they re-sign him, and then the Flames have another team-friendly deal to work with. Maybe they trade him - and the team could improve or it could get worse (IMO, you are not going to get someone as skilled as Gaudreau in any trade, but I will accept that argument that the players back may end up as 'better fits').

I see no possible rationale that continuing with Ward as the coach is giving this team the best chance to win. I don't see it. Maybe he is not part of the problem (but coaches are ultimately responsible in my opinion, so to me, it almost doesn't matter).

You have THIS season. This is the best season for the Flames to win (or at least go far in the playoffs). If you are not 100% sure that your coach is the right person for the job, then what are you really doing? Why bank on a coach who is inexperienced AND not getting the results needed in what may very well be your last best chance?

Changing the coach is much easier than changing the players. If there was one single high end coach that was brought in since Hartley, I would be on the bandwagon of: "Change the core, or just blow it up". I can't say that.

I can't say that Ward is the right coach just like I can't say that Brett Ritchie is this team's first line RW. Maybe they both are. I am betting that neither are suited for their respective roles.

02-18-2021, 12:46 PM	#459
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	If your definition of a proper rebuild and competitive team is winning the cup, maybe sports isn't for you. The Stanley Cup is the goal of course. However, we have seen great teams miss out on the cup due to injuries, lucky-bounces, running into a team that is riding red-hot and just seems to have your team's number - that stuff happens. Personally, winning the cup is what I hope for, but not necessarily what I expect. What I expect is for the team I cheer for to be a legitimate contender for the cup. For a core group of players to have a few runs during their prime years. 3rd round, 4th round... to have success in the regular season as well. A properly rebuilt team shouldn't be a bubble-team. It shouldn't be 1st round fodder every time when it gets to the show. Is this a failed rebuild? Does the coach need replacing? Both? I don't see a Stanley Cup finalist team in the North Division. I just don't. Sorry Toronto and Montreal Fans, but your teams aren't good enough. With that being said, is Calgary? Absolutely not. In the North Division, the Flames aren't doing so hot. 4 game series against Vancouver, and who was the better team? I would say Vancouver. Calgary was backstopped by Markstrom who is fricken good. Of course he is part of the team, and that counts. No apologies there. Dig a little deeper... Gaudreau is scoring right now at an insane (and dare I say, unsustainable?) shooting percentage. He has looked great - he really does, and I was an advocate for NOT trading him away. He will come back down to earth in terms of shooting percentage, however. I am sure he will still be playing great though - and I say that sincerely. I love Gaudreau. When he comes back down to his normal shooting percentage, suddenly things are going to look worse. Things aren't looking great. Vancouver out-played Calgary. It seemed they had a better system that nullified Calgary's breakouts. They played a MUCH better defensive game all-around in my opinion, especially as the games went on. Here is the conclusion that I have come to: Gaudreau MAY not be good enough to win a cup. Monahan MAY not be good enough to win a cup. Tkachuk... Lindholm... Backlund... Dube... Mangiapane.. the rest of the forwards and defence, and even Markstrom (and Rittich). This team MAY not be good enough to win a cup. I also think that Ward may not be good enough to win a cup. Anyone want to argue that point? Now, the Flames can go out and trade some of the core and try to get core pieces back - though the off-season is a much more likely scenario to do so. However, you also waste a year. More prime seasons and team-friendly deals wasted, I may add. It is a heck of a lot easier to change the coach. Yeah, some people will say: "Another coach? Maybe if you keep doing the same things and expecting different results, then you are crazy." (I thought I would get the jump on that statement - I HATE that statement, it is an idiotic statement that is not something that either Einstein stated or is even close to the definition of insanity!! grrr). Can anyone make a case as to why Ward is RIGHT? Can anyone make a legitimate case as to why Ward is the right coach for this team, and that he is making the most of the team on paper in terms of results on the ice? Any rationale as to what makes you confident that he is part of the solution, other than the Flames have gone through a bunch of coaches already? Flames have also tried Leivo, Nordstrom, Simon, Bennett, Mangiapane, Ritchie (and I believe Dube - but maybe I am wrong on that one). So I guess since they tried all these different players on the top line RW, and none of them worked out, then might as well just keep Ritchie there for good then, right? It is the exact same argument, and for me, it is a non-starter. I think Ward was the wrong call. I would have preferred that Treliving did a search and retained an experienced head coach with a decent track record after Peters was let go. Fine - let's see what Ward can do... and I wasn't impressed (and neither were a lot of other people here too). I think good teams have good coaching. Most coaches have a shelf-life, but it is crazy to be a hockey fan and not see how much a coach can impact a team. We saw it with Darryl Sutter here in Calgary (and just look at the turn around in LA when he got there!!). Berube in St. Louis was huge (unproven, but an impact nonetheless). Want to change the culture on your team? You have two choices - change a bunch of the players, or change the coach. Have a team that doesn't feel like starting on time over and over again? Change the players, or change the coach. In my opinion, the coach is who is responsible for the players' effort. If they are not giving a full effort, well, he has to address it and manage it. If the players don't cooperate, the coach benches that player, if the team doesn't cooperate, run exhausting drills. If the players are still not cooperating, you escalate to the GM and let him know that players x,y,z are not team players, and you want them moved. Sure, it may cost you your job, but you are toast anyway if this doesn't get resolved. It may very well be the players. I am not saying it is absolutely not. I do think that this is Calgary's last and best shot at winning a cup with the current core, and the team friendly deals that they have. Flames are going to have to address the Gaudreau situation THIS off-season. Maybe they re-sign him, and then the Flames have another team-friendly deal to work with. Maybe they trade him - and the team could improve or it could get worse (IMO, you are not going to get someone as skilled as Gaudreau in any trade, but I will accept that argument that the players back may end up as 'better fits'). I see no possible rationale that continuing with Ward as the coach is giving this team the best chance to win. I don't see it. Maybe he is not part of the problem (but coaches are ultimately responsible in my opinion, so to me, it almost doesn't matter). You have THIS season. This is the best season for the Flames to win (or at least go far in the playoffs). If you are not 100% sure that your coach is the right person for the job, then what are you really doing? Why bank on a coach who is inexperienced AND not getting the results needed in what may very well be your last best chance? Changing the coach is much easier than changing the players. If there was one single high end coach that was brought in since Hartley, I would be on the bandwagon of: "Change the core, or just blow it up". I can't say that. I can't say that Ward is the right coach just like I can't say that Brett Ritchie is this team's first line RW. Maybe they both are. I am betting that neither are suited for their respective roles.