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Calgary4LIfe · 02-06-2021, 01:46 PM

IIRC, Hartley was making over 2 million a year (can't remember the exact figure - 2.5? 3.0?), and that was before coaching salaries saw a dramatic increase.

As for good coaches not wanting to come here, I am not sure about that. We know that Boudreau wasn't contacted - maybe he was lying and just helping Calgary to save face, maybe not. I don't consider him a good coach anyway (not one single season in his resume has one of his teams 'overachieved' - usually the opposite, especially in the playoffs IMO).

I really do believe that Treliving is just focused on certain ideologies within the coaching ranks that agree with his own philosophies.

One thing that I am unsure of is how Darryl Sutter fits into that category. He wasn't contacted either before Treliving hired Peters (though it seemed that nobody else was as Peters seemed to be Treliving's target). However, IIRC, LA was one of the better possession teams under Sutter. I have to assume that nothing much has changed and that Darryl would still be happy to coach here - it has only been 2 years. He is by far my first choice if a coach is going to get replaced.

There is nobody else out there that really stands out as a great coach. Like I said, I think Boudreau is overrated. Gallant seems to get his teams to out-perform expectations, but he also seems to get fired rather quickly for some reason, and that gives me some doubts.

I really want a coach with a track record of taking his teams further than what the expectations were, or at least entering an organization that was severely under-performing and then getting them back on track. Bonus if they did it with more than one team. Hartley fits that bill, but there is no way you can bring him back, especially with the rumoured 'issues' (and I am not advocating that - just pointing out examples).

It seems like there are two sides to this argument:

1) Why change the coach again, when they have done that so often already? It HAS to be the players!
2) Hire a competent coach for once, and then we can at least rule that out if it doesn't work. Then we can blame it on the players!

I think the longer either of these questions go unanswered, and the Flames continue to flounder in mediocrity, or at least not perform to expectations (2nd round of playoffs? Does that seem fair? 3rd round?), the more heat that Treliving will face. Whether it is the players, or whether it is the coaching staff is irrelevant as he is responsible for addressing both issues.

I am also not advocating that Treliving should be dismissed either. Just stating that he is indeed responsible for coaching decisions and roster moves, and that if the Flames don't break out of this cycle he will eventually be thrown into the fire like everyone else.

What people don't bring up or don't want to talk about, is that his first season was his most successful season where he made the least amount of roster moves/coaching decisions. Now, I do think that this team is more talented and better constructed that that team was - there is no question. The counter argument is that Flames got 'lucky' in playing an 'easy' team in the first round. We can argue that point forever, but all I know is that this team has been through a rebuild, every single contract on the team right now has passed through his desk, all the roster moves are his, and all the coaching hires have been his already. Yet this team still hasn't gotten out of the 1st round.

2013/14 was year one of the rebuld (2012/13 was the 'tear down', so not sure which year you want to start with). This is the 2020-21 season, so it has been 7 years. Is this team a contender?

We as fans at the moment don't even seem sure that this team is a playoff team this year. Not everyone of course. I think they are a playoff team and something has to go 'off the rails' for them not to be. However, it seems to me that this team is more likely to miss the playoffs than to make it to the conference finals.

Some of the let-downs in the playoffs could be rationalized away under 'poor goaltending' (ignoring that Treliving was responsible for this as well, but I do give him credit for trying and the prices were indeed high at times). This year there will be no excuses I think. Whether this is a poorly constructed team, or a team that is poorly coached, even I am not positive. I want a proven coach as defined by me above, but I do think that this will be the year that if the Flames miss, Treliving gets pushed out of the frying pan and into the fire, and he will start taking a lot of heat. He better be very sure on Ward.

7 years should be long enough to either build a winner, or know you built a dud. I would at least like to know for sure just one of these seasons if it was the players or the coach.

02-06-2021, 01:46 PM	#126
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	IIRC, Hartley was making over 2 million a year (can't remember the exact figure - 2.5? 3.0?), and that was before coaching salaries saw a dramatic increase. As for good coaches not wanting to come here, I am not sure about that. We know that Boudreau wasn't contacted - maybe he was lying and just helping Calgary to save face, maybe not. I don't consider him a good coach anyway (not one single season in his resume has one of his teams 'overachieved' - usually the opposite, especially in the playoffs IMO). I really do believe that Treliving is just focused on certain ideologies within the coaching ranks that agree with his own philosophies. One thing that I am unsure of is how Darryl Sutter fits into that category. He wasn't contacted either before Treliving hired Peters (though it seemed that nobody else was as Peters seemed to be Treliving's target). However, IIRC, LA was one of the better possession teams under Sutter. I have to assume that nothing much has changed and that Darryl would still be happy to coach here - it has only been 2 years. He is by far my first choice if a coach is going to get replaced. There is nobody else out there that really stands out as a great coach. Like I said, I think Boudreau is overrated. Gallant seems to get his teams to out-perform expectations, but he also seems to get fired rather quickly for some reason, and that gives me some doubts. I really want a coach with a track record of taking his teams further than what the expectations were, or at least entering an organization that was severely under-performing and then getting them back on track. Bonus if they did it with more than one team. Hartley fits that bill, but there is no way you can bring him back, especially with the rumoured 'issues' (and I am not advocating that - just pointing out examples). It seems like there are two sides to this argument: 1) Why change the coach again, when they have done that so often already? It HAS to be the players! 2) Hire a competent coach for once, and then we can at least rule that out if it doesn't work. Then we can blame it on the players! I think the longer either of these questions go unanswered, and the Flames continue to flounder in mediocrity, or at least not perform to expectations (2nd round of playoffs? Does that seem fair? 3rd round?), the more heat that Treliving will face. Whether it is the players, or whether it is the coaching staff is irrelevant as he is responsible for addressing both issues. I am also not advocating that Treliving should be dismissed either. Just stating that he is indeed responsible for coaching decisions and roster moves, and that if the Flames don't break out of this cycle he will eventually be thrown into the fire like everyone else. What people don't bring up or don't want to talk about, is that his first season was his most successful season where he made the least amount of roster moves/coaching decisions. Now, I do think that this team is more talented and better constructed that that team was - there is no question. The counter argument is that Flames got 'lucky' in playing an 'easy' team in the first round. We can argue that point forever, but all I know is that this team has been through a rebuild, every single contract on the team right now has passed through his desk, all the roster moves are his, and all the coaching hires have been his already. Yet this team still hasn't gotten out of the 1st round. 2013/14 was year one of the rebuld (2012/13 was the 'tear down', so not sure which year you want to start with). This is the 2020-21 season, so it has been 7 years. Is this team a contender? We as fans at the moment don't even seem sure that this team is a playoff team this year. Not everyone of course. I think they are a playoff team and something has to go 'off the rails' for them not to be. However, it seems to me that this team is more likely to miss the playoffs than to make it to the conference finals. Some of the let-downs in the playoffs could be rationalized away under 'poor goaltending' (ignoring that Treliving was responsible for this as well, but I do give him credit for trying and the prices were indeed high at times). This year there will be no excuses I think. Whether this is a poorly constructed team, or a team that is poorly coached, even I am not positive. I want a proven coach as defined by me above, but I do think that this will be the year that if the Flames miss, Treliving gets pushed out of the frying pan and into the fire, and he will start taking a lot of heat. He better be very sure on Ward. 7 years should be long enough to either build a winner, or know you built a dud. I would at least like to know for sure just one of these seasons if it was the players or the coach.