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Old 12-17-2020, 02:06 PM   #79
bax
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Originally Posted by Monahammer View Post
I will preface this by saying that I have nothing personal against Sigalet, but let's examine it statistically so we can shunt it out of anecdotal realm.

Sigalet began coaching duties within the flames org on the 11-12 abbotsford heat.

The year before, the Heat's primary goalie was 22 year old Leland Irving, a flames 1st round talent that put up a respectable .913% 2.30 GAA in 61 Games.

In 11-12 Leland Irving declined significantly, getting pulled many times and being limited to 39 games (some from injury, some from poor play.) 2.67 GAA and a .902%. Halfway through the season the flames acquired Dan Taylor, a successful AHL goalie, who went on to play 33 games, put up a .927% season, and 2.21 GAA.

in 12-13 Leland Irving whithered further, playing only 12 games, putting up a .884 and a 3.40 GAA. Dan Taylor had another good season, though slightly less good than previously, postin a .922%. Barry Brust was brought in, he played 33 games and managed a .911%.

Hard to track it further from here, as the next season none of the same goalies returned: Leland Irving was washed out, Dan Taylor never played in the american leagues again (?) and ditto Barry Brust (?)
The heat played 7 Different goalies that year (Ortio, Dell, Doug Carr, Reto Berra, Joey MacDonald, Olivier Roy, and Laurent Brossoit.) all of whom went on to play some games in the NHL following this. Ortio was the best, playing 37 games and posting a .926 after returning from Finland. At this point people were hoping he could be a kipper 2.0.

In 14-15 Sigalet was promoted to the Goaltending coach position with the flames. Our 3 goalies were Hiller (52 games, .918/2.36- pretty great, and improvement over his final season in Anaheim), fresh from the KHL Ramo (34 games, .912/2.60) , and Ortio (6 games, .908/2.52). Ortio had a notably worse season in the AHL, blame that on what you will.

In 15-16 Hiller fell off a cliff, limited to 26 fames with a 0.879 and a 3.51. He since returned to Switzerland and never played in the NHL again. Ramo's stats stayed relatively consistent, but underachieving (0.909/2.63 in 37) while Ortio continued to struggle making the transition (0.902/2.76 in 22). We also had old Nick Backstrom for 4 games but not worthy of counting. Ramo and Ortio both left the NHL forever as well. Gillies began playing in the AHL club, .920%

In 16-17 We mostly used the tandem of Brian Elliott and Chad Johnson, two of the leading Save % goalies in the NHL the season prior (.930 and .920 respectively.) Both struggled, seeing a relatively consistent GAA of 2.5- but having their save percentages both fall to .910. Mid road goaltending from two guys who led the league the year prior.
Both have continued to plummet in subsequent seasons. Unknown David Rittich played 1 game (.900%/3.00) and star prospect Jon Gillies played 1 game (and looked great, .964% and 1.00 GAA, .910 in 39 AHL games).

In 17/18 Treliving decided that going stat hunting didn't work, and so he wanted to try someone he had success with in the past. Enter Mike Smith, to most of our chagrin. Smith played 55 games, putting up good numbers and seemed rejuvenated. .916% and 2.65. Poor playoffs but brush that off as headcase Smitty. Star prospect Jon Gillies struggled more and more, playing 11 times with a .896% and a 2.88 GAA, however he was still looking good while in Abbotsford at the beginning of the season, where he had .917 through 39 games. Eddie Lack played 4 games and was Awful, not a shadow of the former player. Rittich showed improvement: 21 games, high GAA at 2.92, and a mediocre .904% but he was fun.

18/19 Smith became unusable most nights and our goaltending seriously held the team back again. He put up a 0.898% and 2.72 gaa in 42 games. Rittich was a much needed boon, improving again with more responsibility and putting up a respectable ..911 with a 2.61 gaa. Not league leading in any sense, but respectable most nights. Smith has never recovered to his +.905% and some would consider him currently out of the NHL.

And that brings us to 19-20. Rittich withered under the burden of leading the net, growing inconsistent with a .907% and a 2.97 gaa. Talbot showed notable improvement from his Oiler fiasco, with a .919% and 2.63gaa in 26 gp. Talbot will probably play well for Minnesota, a bit sad to see him go.

That leaves us:

1 Goalie who has shown marked improvement under Sigalet over multiple seasons (Rittich).
2 top goaltending prospects who showed promise in the AHL and then crumbled over time, coincidentally it seems after exposure to Sigalet (Irving, Gillies).
4 guys who had career- type years in their first season with Sigalet (Dan Taylor, Ortio, Mike Smith, and Cam Talbot)
5 guys who were league leaders before Sigalet who have never been able to return to that level since (Dan Taylor, Jonas Hiller, Brian Elliott, Chad Johnson, Mike Smith)
All except Rittich declined statistically in their 2nd+ seasons with Sigalet. Rittich saw a decline in the 3rd
And 5 guys who never even played in NA again after sigalet: Taylor, Brust, Hiller, Ramo, Ortio.

Not a flattering picture.
Appreciate the work that went into this post, but I can't help but think this is a lot of stat digging that doesn't really prove anything one way or the other.

There is a ton of mediocre to bad goalies on that list- are we really going to blame Sigalet because journeymen guys like Barry Brust, and Dan Taylor didn't pan out? Hiller and Smith were all on the back half of their careers when they got here- best days behind them for sure.

Talbot, Elliot, Ramo, Rittich, Johnson? Capable of playing great in stretches, but none of these guys have been consistently great number 1 goalies anywhere.

Not to mention we are looking purely at individual goalie stats which almost never tell the full story. How good was the team? What was their defensive structure? Did the goalies get hung out to dry? Without watching the games it's really tough to know anything.

This also glosses over some serious injuries guys have battled through. Rittich has been injured in the back half of both seasons, Gillies was never the same after his hip surgery, etc.

I don't think the difference between Leland Irving being a bust and a great NHL goalie was Jordan Sigalet.
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