Quote:
Originally Posted by TOfan
What would you rather; be where the Flames are in which I would say is a competitive team that should be in the playoffs year in year out for, at the very least, the next two seasons. Or would you rather be in Montreal’s position? They’ve stockpiled picks for years now and are still, in my opinion, not as close to competing as the Flames.
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I want them to trade picks for actual long term solutions that will contribute to the team for more than 1-2 seasons.
Hamilton Trade: That's fine you're adding a 21 year old d-man that should have been a piece here long term, and you had made other trades that had us in a pick surplus but that's not the issue of the last three-four seasons and moving out picks.
But the picks moved out in the last three drafts have done little to move the team forward IMO.
1st, 2 2nds for Hamonic was an overpayment from day 1 and in the end he wasn't worth even just the 1st IMO.
3rd (could have been a second) for Smith....actually not the worst value considering the rumors of Kuemper costing a 1st for two seasons, so this one was actually pretty good value.
Lazar for a 2nd...bad trade as there was no indication Lazar was going to be an NHLer.
Stone for a 3rd & 5th...once again bad value as Stone was a contract liability right away.
Elliott for a 2nd and 3rd...overpayment for a guy that lasted one season here.
Let's look at the net sum of those trades:
Hamonic - 193 games (5 playoff games)
Stone - 148 games ( 4 playoff games)
Lazar- 70 games (1 playoff game)
Elliott - 49 games (4 playoff games, single handedly lost that Anaheim series)
for
Dobson
Bolduc
Iskhakov
Nordgren
Formenton
Kyrou (or who knows...the Flames seemed to want to draft a goalie in round 2 that year, maybe they take Hart with this pick since he was still on the board at the time)
So yeah maybe they were trades because we were made to help open a "window" but personally I'd much rather have Dobson, Formenton, Bolduc, and Kyrou as pieces still in the organization coming up to add to our core, opposed to having nothing in the organization from those trades.
The best way to win a cup is to be good long term and continually build a team, not to just go all in for a "window". The trades above have nothing to do with the Flames being competitive for the next year or two, because none of those pieces are on the roster anymore.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crown Royal
Treliving has been in charge of 6 drafts. You are vastly overrrating the value of 3rd round picks.
Hamonic and Smith helped the Flames be a playoff team in 2019. So giving up a 3rd for Smith did not hurt. Eilliot helped us make the playoffs, so I'm not sure I would say it hurt all that much either. The Lazar trade was worse than either of those.
Also Treliving has successfully brought in top rated NCAA and European free agents on a consistent basis and they likely have similar values to 2nd and 3rd round picks, but like draft picks, they don't always pan out.
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Treliving was on the job for a month before the 2014 draft, based on everything out of the organization that was very much Burke in charge of that draft.
Smith for a 3rd was unfairly included there for sure, that was actually decent value. Hamonic trade was horrible though, he honestly added nothing to the team that they couldn't have gotten from a mid-tier free agent signing, and we paid a huge premium to get him. Honestly I don't care if we made the playoffs with those guys just to lose in the first round, I want this team to win a cup and be a contender long term, not waste assets just to get in.
And great on Treliving for signing those free agents, but teams can never have enough assets, doesn't give him a pass for making bad trades of draft picks.