[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by BoLevi

This is pew data from 2017, and I suspect if we found a similar poll today, the results would be even more extreme. Both sides think the other side is subhuman trash - because most people are highly susceptible to propaganda about the other side. This is especially true when combined with a general strong confirmation bias present in most people. In short: the average person takes much more extreme positions now than before. One unfortunate effect of this is that the average person in the Red Camp or the Blue Camp now views moderates as extremists because a moderate position is now also distant from their own. This is quite apparent in this thread (and I would say in this forum in general, which is very left/democrat/progressive).

Troll-a-lol. I do find it entertaining that someone who posted a Reason article has the audacity to try and lecture people on confirmation bias.

You're comments on moderates are ridiculous, as is your claims of the spectrum becoming polarized because of both sides shifting further to the polar ends of their spectrum. Your own chart shows that as the right has made a hard shift way to extreme and well beyond the moderate position of what could be construed the median. It is this hard shift to the right that has precipitated the appearance of leftward shift by the Democrats and then barrage of inaccurate propaganda about the leftist tendencies of Democrats.

The political spectrum is one where there is balance. For every extreme on one side of the center line there is a similar extreme position on the other side. Communist=fascist. Socialist=Libertarian. Liberal=conservative. An so on. The centrist position has traditionally been where the fulcrum for the political spectrum resides, to maintain balance within the system. But what has happened since WWII is a slow erosion of the ideological spectrum in the United States and a move further to the right. McCarthy eliminated the communist perspective from our discourse. This was a shift that required the fulcrum to move right to maintain balance. Reagan eliminated the socialist perspective. Another move to the right for the fulcrum to allow the political see saw to find homeostasis. Gingrich began the attack on liberalism and McConnell has continued to try and drive the final stake into the heart of liberalism. Another shift to the right for the fulcrum.

In a healthy spectrum the fulcrum resides in the middle, which is centrism, and a balance of ideas come from all perspectives. But the right's push to a more extreme end of the spectrum, and the attack and elimination of the leftist perspectives, has forced that fulcrum, or the center line, to shift to the right to maintain balance. The center line is now somewhere between conservatism and libertarianism. The Dems were forced to shift right with the elimination of their extremes and maintain the balance within the system. Soas the Republicans have pushed way past the libertarian perspective and more into fascist-tolalitarian territory, the Democrats are now centrist-conservative with a few liberal voices as the extreme.

The Republicans have done a fantastic job developing their propaganda campaign to make the Democrats look extreme. Scary AOC and "the squad" are such extremists - nee four women of color who are willing to stand up for their beliefs. But the reality is that they are four of 232 Democrats in the House, and they are junior members at that. Their sphere if influence is limited, but that does not stop them from being cast as the driver of the party platform, even though it is not even remotely true. But this has been a very effective narrative because four women of color having their voices heard scares the bejesus out of conservatives who embrace the patriarchy, white culture, and see a decline in their position in society. As I mentioned earlier, Dems now own the centrist-conservative position in the spectrum, so voices even cause consternation within the support for their own party.

The political spectrum in the US has shrunk and moved rapidly to the right and dragged the center line with it. Anyone who suggests the left in the United States is extreme has no clue what they are talking about and is just buying into the propaganda. The system is not healthy as a result of being a thin slice of the right end of the spectrum. Balance needs to be restored, but for that to happen the American people need to be re-introduced to the ideals of liberalism, socialism, and communism. Without them, there is no balance in the system.

Originally Posted by BoLevi

I don't disagree with the fact that the right has moved more to the right. But the left has moved more to the left.

There is a bigger gap in the middle. And both sides think moderates are "extreme", which of course is a failure.

This isn't accurate at all. It is well documented that the right has made the shift and taken the country along for the ride. The problem we are seeing is the purity expectations are preventing the moderation from having the effect it normally does. Newt Gingrich's enforcement of the the purity pledge as speaker put us on this dangerous course, and now it is enforced by both parties to maintain control. Moderates exist on both sides, but the system is now functioning where moderation is impossible or those members face being primaried.

As for the SCOTUS nomination - Obama and Biden have both wanted to install justices in the final year of a presidency. The hypocrisy goes both ways.

This is more bull####. Obama and Biden have indeed wanted to install justices in their final year, as that is their constitutional right. But Mitch McConnell refused to hear the confirmation, making up new rules as he went along. That is where the issue is here. President's always have the right to forward their nominations, and it is the expectation that the Senate will comply with their constitutional responsibility of vetting the nominee through the hearing process. But Mitch McConnell changed the rules and made it clear that in the final year of a President's term that no nomination should be moved forward, and it should require a vote of the American people to determine the path going forward. McConnell broke with tradition and observing the intent of the constitution, instituting his own rules to forward his own agenda. Now, when the exact same conditions apply (worse actually as Obama had nine months left in his term while Trump has 46 days) McConnell is suggesting they rush the nomination process through and install Trump's selection. That is where the hypocrisy is and the heights to which McConnell is willing to go in this regard is stunning.

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There is nothing wrong with wanting to fill the seat in an election year, so in isolation, I don't think there is anything wrong with the Republicans wanting to do it right now.

But the same Republicans are the ones who opposed it last time. They set that standard, one that didn't exist before, so it isn't hypocrisy if the Dems now want to hold them to that standard and deny them what they were denied in 2016.

Therein lays the problem. McConnell made new rules and enforced those rules against his constitutional mandate. It was a powerplay, full stop. But now he want's to go back on his word and do just the opposite. Again, another powerplay and hypocritical. This is where conservatives show their true nature. They don't believe in anything except the acquisition of power.

Originally Posted by BoLevi

Both Biden and Obama are on the record in 2016 and before saying that a President should confirm a justice before the election. Not sure where the controversy is.

Now they are taking the opposite view.

The controversy is in you trying to twist this around and make it something it is not. They are on record in saying something in 2016, but something happened after those statements that changed the playing field. McConnell's new rules for confirmation hearings has reset expectations and established the new norm. If Obama was not allowed to nominate his selection within nine months of an election, why should Trump get his with 46 days until an election? Considering the nomination process takes on average 67 days, it would have to be hurried and incomplete for a vetting a voting to take place. That is not taking an opposing view, that is a statement on the rules McConnell put into place and an expectation he comply with the very rules he established.