[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by New Era

Schools out!
For someone who doesn't like ad hominems you sure do like to drop them. Anybody who is "against UBI," which means anyone who questions whether it would work, is labelled some type if misanthrope or miscreant who clearly doesn't like all people.

Wrong. I simply stated a fact, which is that there is a tendency that those who are opposed to UBI are more likely than not to be very concerned about its impact on economic growth/job creation. I did not make any particular statement about any particular person.

Which mean you are not allowing for the market to regulate what those jobs can pay. You are artificially inflating the market for those jobs, which in turn will inflate the market for jobs in the related industry and start a domino effect. To add to this inflationary mechanism you are then forcing the service provider to up their costs, which then go on to the consumer to pay for. Inflation is a real problem with this model.

I absolutely am allowing the market to regulate what those jobs pay. There may be some inflation initially, but it becomes less and less of a concern over time as automation takes on more and more of work that humans used to do.

People are motivated by two drivers. Extrinsic and intrinsic. Extrinsic (external) motivators have a greater level of decay and do not act as a long term motivator. Intrinsic (internal) motivators are a much better driver, but linked more to our emotional health and subject to our mood. Hence the discussion of depression and the possible effects on this system. But you dismissed that because, science. You don't know anything about it, so to you it has no relevance nor validity to any discussion you want to have.

It has huge relevance, and I have not dismissed it. I know a tremendous amount about it, and I know that most of it stems from people feeling marginalized and not valued by society.

No, it wouldn't. People will still have obligations and responsibilities they will have to live up to. People will still have to deal with the same challenges of searching for another job before moving on to another. That's the thing about being an adult, it normally comes with responsibilities in the shape of commitments, relationships, and responsibilities that you still have to maintain regardless of whether your boss treats you like crap.

Yes, it would. No person should be trapped in a situation where they are being taken advantage of. UBI provides that freedom to leave the situation.

Your idealism is showing. Human nature is not going to change just because you give someone some money. There are decades of research available on UBI experiments, if you care to look at them. Feel free to look at the First Nations/American Indian reservations for a longitudinal example of what a basic income payment can do to/for communities. There is some stark data there to look at. A mortgage payment is not going to make people shift from "rampant consumerism, exploitation of one another, and destruction of the planet, to a healthy balance between consumerism and modesty." As I've said all along, you need to change every system we have in place (economic, political, social, etc.) for UBI to work. The hardest part will be re-wiring every man, woman, and child on this planet.

Coorelation does not equal causation. There are a lot more factors going on in those reserves than just whether or not they're receiving payments.

Just because some authority claims to have all the answers regarding human nature, doesn't necessarily mean that they actually do.