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Originally Posted by New Era
Emphasis on simple. That's your problem. You think this is a "simple" problem for "simple math". Yes, you can "scrape by" on $20K while living in your parent's basement. Get out in the real world, and that doesn't go very far, especially if you have expectations of having a life. In fact, that $20K leaves you living in a state of poverty and subject to depression because you don't have a life and the potential for having one seems minimal.
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And this is your entire problem. Your entire premise rests on some bull#### stereotype of what "having a life" means.
Maybe it's because we brainwash everybody into thinking they're worthless if they don't have a certain type of job, a certain level of income, a certain level of consumption, a certain type of lifestyle, live in a certain type of home, drive a certain type of car, wear a certain type of clothes, etc etc etc.
You are contributing to the problem; you just don't realize it.
I want to bring the homelessness rate to zero. You want to pick & choose who gets treated with decency and who doesn't. That's the difference.
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I wish we could conduct an experiment to give you the experience you're in search of. If there were a way to actually give you the experience to live your claims and make you try to live on $20K for a year. And I'm not talking as a student, I'm talking as a self-sufficient person with responsibilities (leases, bills, a menial job, etc.), and you have to make due on $1,667 a month, less taxes. It would be exceptionally difficult for you and a real eye opener. You would be an absolute wreck by the end of it. The stress that people experience while living in poverty is unbelievable and I would like to see your take on it after experiencing it for a year.
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For the record, the UBI is not taxed, and people can also earn a certain amount of income from a job before it starts being taxed. In Canada, it's the first (approximately) $12k that you can make from working without paying tax on it.
Why would I have leases again? Ohh yeah that's right, I have to drive a car in order to have a life and mobilize upward and be someone, otherwise I'm a worthless POS.
You know what? I'd take you up on your offer. $1667/month tax free for a year, and any money I make from working is mine to keep.
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Okay, this is the most disingenuous thing I've seen anyone post in quite some time. Are you forgetting I'm the one arguing for maintaining the very social programs that people rely upon to help them, RIGHT NOW. You're the one arguing that we should kill all of these programs, that help people with very specialized issues, and replace them with a single payment, that could be less than what they are receiving right now, and leave them on their own to try and figure out how to pay the assistance they need. Talk to the people who you are taking their social services away from and telling them they are on their own for finding similar services... on $20K a year. Those people might call this plan callous.
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My position is and always has been that those with legitimate disabilities receive a higher payment than those who don't.
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Come on, what are you talking about? You are aware that the Trump states, those deep red states, are the ones who receive the most social assistance in the nation? They also get the most subsidies of all the states. "Those people" are the ones mostly sucking off the teet of the government, so they have nothing to whine about. They are well looked after. Their problem is the fact that we ARE trying to make every person matter and that drives them up the wall. These are the people that like their institutionalized racism, work to maintain it, and vote for the party that will keep the pedal to the metal in that regard. "Send a clear message to everyone that every person matters." Give me a break. These are the people that have been sending messages for the past 60 years that black and brown people don't matter.
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First of all, there is no truly UBI in any of those states.
Second, Trump is working to dismantle the assistance programs in those states, bit by bit, without replacing them with anything.
https://washingtonmonthly.com/2020/0...al-safety-set/
The brainwashing that Trump supporters have succumb to is deeply worrying. I don't know what the solution is. However, I know that the solution is not to pat them on the back and support their "logic" as they scream "pull yourself up by your bootstraps!"
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It's also because we have expertise, experience, and competency on our side. You know, the things you need to understand the big problems that affect society and the impact one system has on another. You need that understanding to tackle these big issues and affect real change. There is a difference between blind idealism and supporting change. Blind idealism is dangerous because it is filled with blind spots. That's where experience comes into play. While you call it callousness or ruthlessness we like to call it knowledge and awareness of the pitfalls of idealism.
We've all been there, and we've all championed idealistic causes and have learned our lessons the hard way, just like you will learn yours. Trust me, I used to think my old man was doddering old fool and I was the master of all domains too. Funny thing, I hit 35 and found out that old goat knew WTF he was talking about. A day doesn't go by that I wish I could tug his ear to get advice on the things impacting us and our world. Sadly he is long gone and I don't get to rely on his wisdom and counsel when I need it. Weird thing is, I have all the young guys in the office asking me for advice because I've been around the block a few times and have that experience to work from.
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I think growing older and gaining experience causes you to lose some of the blind spots you previously had, but develop new ones. That's why younger people and older people need to work together to create solutions, not just one group or the other calling the shots.
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You're right. There is a lot in the world that is ####ed up. But that vast majority of people haven't contributed a ton to that. That has been a small group of money and power hungry individuals that have caused the vast majority of the damage. The uber rich have always had way too much power and that is what needs to change. For every Bill Gates that wants to do goodm there are Koch Brothers that want to burn the place to the ground. This is what needs to change.
It's funny, but not too long ago I was sitting in a cabinet meeting and the conversation trued to the future. People were scared ####less because the millennials were going to be taking over and, generally speaking, they didn't care about the systems or had any interest in being engaged. I was the dissenting voice in the room and disagreed. I said they just needed to find that issue that mobilized them, just as we had been mobilized by the anti-war and anti-nuke movements in the past. Maybe this is your generation's cause. Maybe this is what will get millennials engaged and participating in the system. But that is the thing, you have to get engaged with the system. You have to learn to work within it just like we did, and the greatest generation did, and so on. Once you understand how the system works and you're on the inside then, and only then, will you have the opportunity to make the change you want. You have some good ideas, but those ideas have to work within the constructs of our government, our economy, and our society. Too much change too quickly will always be rejected. Your generation's time will come, and then you will have the honor of cleaning up the pile of #### the greatest and the boomers left behind. Trust me, I don't like what is being left behind and it is why I am trying to foment change from the inside and make a difference before I pack it in.
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I applaud your efforts. I just think your perspective is incomplete.