[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

And yet, there really is nothing positive that these programs accomplish that UBI wouldn't.

What in the ####??? How does UBI address these issues? $1,000 a month is going to replace plethora of services that were listed above? Lost healthcare insurance coverage eats the entire UBI payment. A single semester in university eats the yearly UBI. You're out to lunch on this. Unless the UBI is going to equivalent to a living wage every person receiving welfare assistance is going to see a shortfall, and then no support program to help out. The same people are still going to be unemployed, the same social problems are going to exist, you're just shifting the money around, reducing it, and calling it something new.

If you're really concerned about crippling poverty, I would think that you'd be in favor of a program that eliminates it directly, while at the same time eliminating a lot of bureaucratic bloat.

So UBI is not going to be impacted by the same problems? Any large program like this is going to require substantial overhead and substantial oversight. Also, it is not going to eliminate poverty. Based on the lack of payment, it is likely to allow poverty to skyrocket. You're Utopian perspective on this is difficult to square with the remainder of the system. The only way your UBI system works is if you literally burn every system to the ground and start over. The market economy has to catastrophically crash and fail. The government has to be completely reconstructed, including our foundational documents and how the states interact. Most importantly, people have to completely change their expectations and desires as a society. We have to shift from a consumer economy that focuses predominantly on wants and then starts to focus only on needs.

You mentioned upward mobility. I think there's too much preoccupation in today's society with upward mobility. However, people attaining new knowledge/skills is always a good thing, and should always be encouraged. I don't know if there's anything more obstructive to personal development than people being trapped menial, draining, drudgerous jobs that they aren't interested in.

You think there is too much focus on upward mobility? Of course you do. As a 20something white male that is an easy thing to do. But try being a visible minority or someone born into soul crushing poverty. The only way out of those situations is upward mobility, and that is a reality that so many citizens are trying to achieve by taking advantage of these various programs.

One of my cohorts during my PhD was a woman born into poverty. She had never been out of West Virginia and had only visited her university in WV. Never been on a plane and had only been out of her county to go to university on the back of Pell grants. Without those grants she never would have had opportunity to break the poverty cycle, get on a plane, visit the other side of the nation, and complete a PhD. UBI never would have provided for that. A UBI would do nothing but maintain status quo for her. The same would exist for millions who use these services to better themselves and leverage upward mobility to get out of poverty that has impacted their family for generations.