[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I have come to feel much of the discussion around the future of work and STEM in the education space is very misguided.

Yes, they are, in many ways. People have some really twisted beliefs on STEM and what educators think about STEM. There is some truth to academics not approaching STEM with the right perspective, but academics don't run colleges and universities. They have influence, but they do not make the decisions in regards to program sustainability and longevity. So the conversation is very different than that which is represented.

The conversations we ought to be having regarding our education systems are around the future of society, not merely the future of work.

This is pretty much how the greater conversations go. A larger more long-term perspective is kept on society's needs and industry is used to provide guidance for immediate needs. Industry tends to look quarter-to-quarter and does not hold the larger long-term need in much regard. The conversations had with Amazon a decade ago are vastly different than the ones we have today, because of the evolution in their business model, yet higher education keeps that longer-term perspective front and center and feeds the needs of that interest.

There will always be aspects of educational experiences that are just pragmatic and instrumental in moving towards a career, but our lives shouldn't be reduced to our careers and our education shouldn't be reduced to career prep. Education for wisdom, for joy, for mental health, for social cohesion, for meaning and purpose in life are all tremendously important, especially in a future of continued rapid change in industry.

Exactly. Considering that people will transition between careers multiple times during their lifetimes a broad educational base is required for people to be successful. Unless you plan on being in a specific trade your whole life, specialized education like that does not work for most people.

Obviously, needs have emerged that can be addressed by new pathways like those provided by Google's certificates and others, but they're not replacements for a well-rounded education and we shouldn't be throwing the baby out with the bathwater in our rush to revolutionize education systems.

Micro-certification has helped people hone very specific skills and show they are qualified for very specific jobs. These micro-certs have purpose. They are to provide differentiation in screening and show that an individual is qualified to complete a certain job. That is the whole intent behind all education and training. To better you as an individual and give you a competitive edge against your peers. This is one of the reasons why I tell all students to not just focus on completion of their current degree, but to develop a long-term learning plan that will keep you current and maintaining a competitive edge. For someone in the IT industry, that means a general degree then working progressively to higher levels as your career progresses. It also means continuing to achieve certifications. So for that individual interested in IT security with the hopes of becoming a CISO, they should be pursuing a bachelor degree in MIS or CIS with a focus on security. Then they should be layering that with general certifications (A+, Security+, GISF). Once they have achieved this they need to gain experience in the workforce, but at the same time working on increasing their certification stack with more specialized certs (MCSE, GCWN, GCUX, CEH). The next step is to plan for completion of their Masters, hopefully in something information security-centric. After that you need to build on that cert stack some more until you reach a terminal certification (GSE, CISM, CISA, CISSP). The last step, and is strictly optional but a big differentiator, is achievement of the PhD. The path of learning never ends, especially if you want to attain the highest levels of responsibility in your industry.

Originally Posted by Azure

I think this exact attitude is the reason why the student debt level is on a linear path up, with no end in site, and there are thousands of jobs not being filled, while unemployment among first time job holders is at a record level.

The reason for student debt is because for-profit universities shifted the industry and gave reason for all institutions to raise the cost of education. Community college provides a cheap and affordable path to attaining an associates degree and starting your career. Students coming out of the community colleges are actually better positioned to get jobs because they haven't built up the same level of entitlement students get while working through a four year program. This is a really big problem.

Students complain that they don't have a job coming out of school, but very few of them do the work to earn a job while they are in college/university. Students think that because they competed a degree the world is their oyster and employers should be beating their door down with job offers in management and keys to the executive suite. I do blame this on schools for not better managing expectations and have mandatory classes on prepping students to enter the workforce. There should be a class a year on skill development in the area of job hunting. Students need to learn to do job searches, write resumes and cover letters, interview, and sell themselves as a product. I think the system is letting them down in this regard as it does not pass along an important lesson to them; they are responsible for their success and all aspects of building your career.

You know what makes people happy? Not coming out of a 4 year degree program and realizing the only job available is flipping burgers at Mickey D's while living in their parents basement.

Is this your experience? What was your degree in? Why were you unable to find a job coming out of university? Let's talk this through.

For some reason North America has this warped sense of reality where we think telling kids they should go for 'what they love' is going to equal a happy and functioning society, and yet European countries, where the education system pushes kids into programs where they can get 'jobs' is a lot more successful.

Wait, we shouldn't do something we love? Since we spend more time with our co-workers and completing work related tasks than we do on anything else, I would hope that people are pursuing a career that they can be happy in? A job is usually not a career and does not have good long-term outcomes. A career on the other hand is something that you take care in nurturing and make sure it continues to evolve with you.

The whole problem is that the trades are not presented as an option simply because they are considered by our education system and the elites that run it as 'lower' in society, and surely our kids shouldn't strive for something lower.

This is changing dramatically. There are major forces in higher ed that are pushing more aggressively for this so it lets the students who are more academically inclined to have access and achieve greater success. The trades do need to be addressed and vocational skill centers are important facets of continuing and higher education. There are all sorts of specialized high schools popping up that focus on this very market and students who show a propensity for success in the areas are channeled in that direction. What is cool about this schools is they prep students for a trade but also give them the business foundations to be successful as a small independent business. I wish the media would show more on this aspect of the education field, but it isn't sexy and positive stories don't sell. It definitely doesn't feed the naysayers and trolls like a good negative story about higher ed.

But hey, lets continue living in fairytale and with rainbows and pots of gold while the issues keep piling up.

I agree. We need to stop with the bad narratives that lead to bad outcomes. We need to focus on making the changes that are needed within the system. That is why this discussion of UBI is so interesting to watch unfold. There are a lot of fairytales and rainbows in the mix, but they don't lead anywhere. Solutions have to fit within systems, or systems need to evolve, or burned completely to the ground. UBI does not fit in the existing system, so there needs to be a larger discussion on the systemic evolution required, or the complete destruction and reconstitution of the system to a new standard, and that is likely to happen.