[JohnnyB]

If the election is a free a fair election, I'm pretty sure Trump is gone. I just don't believe that's happening anymore.

At this point, there's a decent chance that democracy has already been lost. We're just waiting to find out if the undermining of the system that has been underway for years has been sufficient yet for it to be irreversible. This is why I think the discussion over polls is kind of silly. It's like discussing advanced stats to see which team has the edge in an upcoming game, but one of the teams has already paid off the refs and the score keepers. The stats may be useful in the aftermath to argue how the result couldn't reflect reality in a fair election, but the really important question is how the cheater that walks off with the prize is going to be forced to give it back. If nobody is willing and able to do so, it's over.