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Itse · 06-16-2020, 03:02 AM

Meanwhile back in Finland the police have yesterday detained a man with a gun by shooting them once in the leg, just to remind everyone that yes, it IS a consistently viable and effective option, regardless of what internet forum "experts" will tell you.

Also, use of firearm has, as always, triggered an automatic investigation, as it should. In fact, let me explain this further by another example.

In 2017 a motorcycle police officer in Finland noticed a car stopped on the green between highway lanes and pulled over to investigate. He noticed a woman on the ground and a man apparently about to attack the woman with a knife. The policeman shouts "drop the knife" but the man refused, so the officer shot him on the leg. This didn't stop the man, who did in fact start stabbing the woman. The police officer then shot the man in the knife hand and hits, which I think is fairly impressive, but not enough to make him drop the knife. Then the officer shoots the man in the the chest. Then he immediately runs over and starts trying to save the man's life. The man however dies. (The woman survived. I haven't found any info on how badly she was injured. Likely pretty bad, but apparently not in a life threatening way.)

There was a criminal investigation into the officers actions to determine whether he was quilty of manslaughter (roughly speaking, the laws aren't exact duplicates). The central question of the investigation was, WHETHER IT WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE FOR THE OFFICER TO RESOLVE THE SITUATION WITHOUT KILLING THE MAN.

The investigation ended in the officers favor, which I assume everyone can agree is fair and just.

But what I want to highlight is the attitude the Finnish legal system takes to anyone, even a police officer, killing anyone, even a person who is literally at that moment trying to murder someone.

In Finland, it's not enough that a killing is justifiable. It has to be literally the only viable option in a situation where another life is immediately threatened. Otherwise you have to try something else. Notice that the motorcycle officer only shot the man once in the chest, not multiple times. Even that shot was still primarily meant to STOP him. Death was at that point a somewhat inevitable side effect, but still not the goal.

This saves lives, every year. The man the police shot in the leg yesterday was mentally in pain and wanted to die. (He literally said this to the arresting officers.) In the US he very likely would have died, and based on what I've read about police procedure in Canada, there's a good chance he would have died there too. In Finland he is now in a hospital and getting help.

I think our system is, in this regard, just flat out better, and I don't see a reason why you couldn't adopt the same logic to policing.

Links here https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11403338

and here https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/201710032200433891.

06-16-2020, 03:02 AM	#892
Itse Franchise Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Helsinki, Finland Exp:	Meanwhile back in Finland the police have yesterday detained a man with a gun by shooting them once in the leg, just to remind everyone that yes, it IS a consistently viable and effective option, regardless of what internet forum "experts" will tell you. Also, use of firearm has, as always, triggered an automatic investigation, as it should. In fact, let me explain this further by another example. In 2017 a motorcycle police officer in Finland noticed a car stopped on the green between highway lanes and pulled over to investigate. He noticed a woman on the ground and a man apparently about to attack the woman with a knife. The policeman shouts "drop the knife" but the man refused, so the officer shot him on the leg. This didn't stop the man, who did in fact start stabbing the woman. The police officer then shot the man in the knife hand and hits, which I think is fairly impressive, but not enough to make him drop the knife. Then the officer shoots the man in the the chest. Then he immediately runs over and starts trying to save the man's life. The man however dies. (The woman survived. I haven't found any info on how badly she was injured. Likely pretty bad, but apparently not in a life threatening way.) There was a criminal investigation into the officers actions to determine whether he was quilty of manslaughter (roughly speaking, the laws aren't exact duplicates). The central question of the investigation was, WHETHER IT WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE FOR THE OFFICER TO RESOLVE THE SITUATION WITHOUT KILLING THE MAN. The investigation ended in the officers favor, which I assume everyone can agree is fair and just. But what I want to highlight is the attitude the Finnish legal system takes to anyone, even a police officer, killing anyone, even a person who is literally at that moment trying to murder someone. In Finland, it's not enough that a killing is justifiable. It has to be literally the only viable option in a situation where another life is immediately threatened. Otherwise you have to try something else. Notice that the motorcycle officer only shot the man once in the chest, not multiple times. Even that shot was still primarily meant to STOP him. Death was at that point a somewhat inevitable side effect, but still not the goal. This saves lives, every year. The man the police shot in the leg yesterday was mentally in pain and wanted to die. (He literally said this to the arresting officers.) In the US he very likely would have died, and based on what I've read about police procedure in Canada, there's a good chance he would have died there too. In Finland he is now in a hospital and getting help. I think our system is, in this regard, just flat out better, and I don't see a reason why you couldn't adopt the same logic to policing. Links here https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11403338 and here https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/201710032200433891. Last edited by Itse; 06-16-2020 at 03:11 AM.