[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Our community colleges have published admission requirements by university that if you meet them you are guaranteed to be accepted to that program.

Yes, they are called admission requirements for a reason. You meet them, or you don't get in. Just because you complete an associates at a community college does not mean you get accepted into the university. You still must meet admission requirements, then meet the pre-requisites for any class in your declared major. So even if you graduated from a community college, with an associates degree, and they have articulation agreements in place, there is no guarantee you are getting into the school or the major of your choice, and even if you do, you may have to repeat those lower division courses to up the GPA to meet requisites of the major.

Students are aware of what they are and it generally a better route to go to get into a lot of in demand schools than to try to qualify with high school gpa and SAT scores.

Community college is traditionally for students who are not prepared for university. Whether that means needing to take a series of dev ed classes to improve basic skills in areas like math and english, or just get good enough grades to earn entry into a four year program, community college is an option for those who do not earn entry into the university of their choice.

I'm a big advocate of community college for a number of reasons, and saving money is one of them, but going to community college does not properly prepare a student for the learning style required to be successful in university. Community college still has small class sizes, a lot of instructor interaction and tutoring, and a style of teaching and learning more in alignment with that of high school. The exposure to classes over 30 is limited, so the concept of sitting in a lecture theater with 250 other students and being a self-starter is greatly limited. Once a student transfers, there is a significant adjustment period which the student still must go through.

Any kind of expansion of public funding of schools needs to make use of community colleges both as a gateway into 4 year schools and for 1 or 2 year vocational specific programs.

Agreed. Community college is a great place to save some money and gear up for the rigors of a four year program. What is important is picking a school that has clear articulation agreements in place and making sure pathways align so you are not repeating courses at the four year institution to meet the reqs and the minimum grade level. Students must still apply themselves and recognize it is the first step in a longer journey.

I don't know if there is a bigger waste of public and parent money and student's time than first year students sitting in a lecture hall with 100 other kids listening to a tenured professor who doesn't want to be teaching the class, and is likely not even an effective communicator. I've been told by guidance counselor's that students that start in community college have a higher rate of graduation at 4 year schools than kids who start there.

Your guidance counselors are spinning you a massive line of misinformation. Considering that a massive number of students who enroll in community college never get out of community college (70+%), or earn the grades for admission to a four year school, the numbers are not in favor of that statement. National Center for Education Statistics show that students who graduate from community college see only a 13% success rate of earning a baccalaureate degree in the next two years of attendance at a four year institution. The numbers rise to 22% and 28% respectively for years three and four at the four year institution. Only 60% of students who went to a community college will earn a degree in the next six years!

Community college is a stepping stone for students that need remedial classes and to prepare for university. It is not a pathway to success if the student is already prepared for university as it tends to cause the bright students to regress to the mean. If a student proves they are ready coming out of high school, through appropriate measures, they should go to university and get on with meeting the requisites of their degree from the institution they hope to earn their degree from.

Late add. Since nfotiu is using the UVA system as the ultimate example, here is UVA's estimates for cost. https://sfs.virginia.edu/cost/18-19

Additional fees. https://financialplanning.vpfinance....l%207.2.18.pdf

The numbers should give people pause and show that there is much more to the cost of education than just looking at "tuition."