Quote:
Originally Posted by nik-
Why do you assume it wouldn't have been better though? If the west wasn't there, are they simply replaced with the Soviets?
You'll never get me arguing that the Western policy in the ME has worked out. I mean it clearly hasn't, but the answer will never be to just dust off our hands and walk away. It just won't happen.
Oil was the old answer, and just because it led to a lot of this doesn't mean we can just say "oh the US wants oil so hurr durr and look what we did". Sometimes countries have bad actors and after a while they should be seen as such and not just excused away as an echo to past policy.
They've had 40 years to decide they don't want to destroy Israel. They've had 40 years to stop fomenting terrorism in their neighbouring states, often with nothing to do with Western presence. They haven't
The West has ####ed up, and will likely continue to, but Iran is still a problem independent of that.
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I'm not even arguing we could or should at this point, I may think the Balfour declaration establishing Israel was an arrogant disaster for all concerned but Israel exists and isn't going anywhere, I view it in the same way I view my and white Canada's relationship with Native Canada, we are here and this is the reality now but it also behooves us to realise we are the cause of these problems, that we are not the good guys, that we will not hope to find a solution if we don't accept that we screwed the pooch, not because we need to feel guilty (although we probably should) but mostly because we will never find a solution if we don't understand Muslim anger is largely justified, by this I mean that if you accept your fathers and grandfathers treated Iraq, Syria, Palestine Egypt etc really badly maybe, just maybe you will realise invading them for any reason is going to go badly wrong no matter what your motive, that just because you might not plan on just stealing their oil and installing a compliant Government the way you did back in the 50's and 60's the locals are not going to see it that way.