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Cecil Terwilliger · 12-19-2019, 12:10 AM

The story didn’t advance a ton but the characters did. Rey, Kylo, Finn, Poe, Luke and Leia were all progressed as characters.

The story on the other hand lacked any discernible forward motion, literally. It was a slow motion spaceship chase.

ESB was somewhat similar in this way. Both ANH and ROTJ relied upon imminent destruction and a big bad to move the story forward. ESB was far more character driven with most of the movie relying on the character struggles and development being the story.

The problem with TLJ is that some people didn’t like the Rey/Luke story because it wasn’t what they expected and the Rose/Finn/Poe/Leia story just wasn’t as engaging as the Han/Lando/Leia story in ESB.

I wasn’t a fan of the latter but had no problem with the former. If you disliked both, well then yeah you were gonna have a bad time.

I’ve also long felt that the original trilogy set the gold standard for a trilogy. Introduction and first victory in chapter 1, bad guys fight back and put the good guys on the ropes for chapter 2 and a triumphant final victory in chapter 3. From that very basic standpoint TLJ was a moderate, if unspectacular, success. However I’d argue they didn’t go far enough. TLJ needed to end on a real downer where you thought the bad guys won and our heroes might be down for the count, with only a sliver of life at the end based largely on the character growth achieved, despite their failure this time round. Luke’s arc in ESB is a perfect example of this. The rebels almost look down and out but he has training and a purpose now. Again though, it was how TLJ got there that was problematic. And I do agree it didn’t, in many ways, have the consistent growth that ESB did on the foundations laid in ANH for the overall story arc.

12-19-2019, 12:10 AM	#796
Cecil Terwilliger That Crazy Guy at the Bus Stop Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Springfield Penitentiary Exp:	The story didn’t advance a ton but the characters did. Rey, Kylo, Finn, Poe, Luke and Leia were all progressed as characters. The story on the other hand lacked any discernible forward motion, literally. It was a slow motion spaceship chase. ESB was somewhat similar in this way. Both ANH and ROTJ relied upon imminent destruction and a big bad to move the story forward. ESB was far more character driven with most of the movie relying on the character struggles and development being the story. The problem with TLJ is that some people didn’t like the Rey/Luke story because it wasn’t what they expected and the Rose/Finn/Poe/Leia story just wasn’t as engaging as the Han/Lando/Leia story in ESB. I wasn’t a fan of the latter but had no problem with the former. If you disliked both, well then yeah you were gonna have a bad time. I’ve also long felt that the original trilogy set the gold standard for a trilogy. Introduction and first victory in chapter 1, bad guys fight back and put the good guys on the ropes for chapter 2 and a triumphant final victory in chapter 3. From that very basic standpoint TLJ was a moderate, if unspectacular, success. However I’d argue they didn’t go far enough. TLJ needed to end on a real downer where you thought the bad guys won and our heroes might be down for the count, with only a sliver of life at the end based largely on the character growth achieved, despite their failure this time round. Luke’s arc in ESB is a perfect example of this. The rebels almost look down and out but he has training and a purpose now. Again though, it was how TLJ got there that was problematic. And I do agree it didn’t, in many ways, have the consistent growth that ESB did on the foundations laid in ANH for the overall story arc. Last edited by Cecil Terwilliger; 12-19-2019 at 12:32 AM.