[zamler]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I am not against these sorts of ideas, but those are the types of solutions being offered up now, and that is the problem: targeting individual examples, and thus missing others. It makes for an unlevel playing field, and that is the challenge.

Excessive packaging is as annoying as anything. But where do you start? And who decides what is excessive? And unless all countries are involved equally, it just creates unfair advantages to those not restricted.

Let's go back to the SUV example above: do we try and make people drive smaller vehicles? (who decides who qualifies for an SUV and who doesn't?) Or do we try to reduce the number of oil tankers carrying oil half way around the world?

Again, who decides? Because unless everyone is playing by the same rules, you aren't accomplishing anything, you are just giving economic advantages to those that won't follow the rules.

Totally agree which is why I say we need a societal shift. But that's not to say regulations can't nudge things alone, for example suppose packaging has a couple logos on it, a "bad" logo if the packaging is not bio degradable. People start to look down on companies that package stuff with the bad logo on it.

But you are absolutely right if we don't have a buy in everywhere things fall apart, and that's our current reality in China they don't care about carbon or pollution China openly admits their plan is use dirty energy to long term achieve their goals which does include clean energy. But certainly not now or in 12 years, maybe 30 or more.

Originally Posted by Azure

There is no math. There is nothing. There are dreams and plans being thrown around by politicians and wackos who don't make any attempt at accepting reality.

There are millions, probably billions with the same wackaloon views. It's getting to the point of hysteria, which is exactly what a politician wants easy to introduce a pointless tax. Pay up or the planet is doomed.


On doing the math we have to do the math, otherwise may as well be pissing in the wind.

I dare ANY person in this thread to present a solution that would make a comparable difference to what I have said. And not just I, but many smart people throughout both industries.

I've said this before there may be no solution. Physics doesn't care about environmental dreams.

I also forgot to mention that it is entirely possible to build natural gas power plants that emit next to no carbon. Imagine that.

???? Explain.