Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community - View Single Post - [CP Story] Makings Sense of the Lucic Trade

Calgary4LIfe · 07-22-2019, 05:04 PM

I didn't vote on the Neal FA signing. I actually didn't know what to make of it. Sure, he has consistently been a good scorer, but he was older now and I didn't remember him as a fast player. I was very apprehensive about the term. I thought that perhaps the Flames would get 2 decent years out of him - maybe 3 - but I really didn't know how good or how poorly he would fit. I was actually more optimistic about the Brouwer signing TBH back then.

If I compare Neal to Brouwer, I would take Brouwer back in a heartbeat. Why? Well, at least he played hard. He even stuck up for a couple of teammates during his time here. Although he was slow, at least he tried playing defence. Brouwer was also a very poor fit, but at least you could see 'something' that he was doing or at least trying to do.

Neal had a handful of games where he looked like he helped this team win, even if it wasn't on the scoreboard. Even when he did get on the scoreboard, those goals usually seemed 'lucky' to me. Ok, in hockey, you make your own luck, and you build off of it. Didn't happen.

I echo the sentiments of Flame Draft Watcher and Enoch above - every single time I got to Neal while thinking up line combos, I couldn't fit him in. I had him as the 13th forward, and maybe only because I didn't want another young player sitting and not developing.

Dube and Mangiapane are immediate upgrades over Neal. Even if they do nothing at all to put themselves on the scoreboard, at least they can forecheck and backcheck and add to the overall team-speed.

As for Lucic, why are so many people insistent that Neal was going to bounce back, but expecting Lucic to bounce back is foolish. Heck, as long as the Oilers don't spoon-feed Neal top line minutes and having McDavid bank pucks off his butt, I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL to see Lucic outscore Neal - AGAIN.

I have always been wary of 'one trick ponies' in the NHL. Look at Neal's stats - almost every single season with the exception of 3(?), Neal has produced more goals than assists. Really? Not even second assists? Matched the eye test for me this season with how terrible his vision and playmaking was. He does NOT make people around him better.

Why wouldn't I be surprised if Lucic out-produces Neal again? Lucic is the opposite - he has more assists than goals every single season. He is smarter with the puck, and can make players around him better (or at least, knows how to make use of the players around him).

So Neal is primarily a goal scorer. How? People claimed that his abnormally low shooting percentage would rebound, and that it was bad luck. I forget who posted it, but in the trade thread there was a poster who showed every single goal Neal scored last season. Anyone see a goalscorer there? If anything, his shooting percentage last season was HIGH, and he was the beneficiary of some good luck.

Maybe that's part of him 'not feeling it'. I don't know. I just didn't see a player capable of scoring regularly in the NHL. Sometimes you see players who just lose it quickly.

Lucic had atrocious linemates last season. This year, I imagine he gets Hathaway's time, but maybe they put him up with Jankowski and Bennett. Either way, that is better quality of linemates. Also, don't forget about the defencemen - Calgary actually have defencemen - from 1-6 - that can move the puck up quickly either by passing it or skating up with it themselves. They also have defencemen that can actually shoot the damn puck as well.

Everything people say about Neal 'bouncing back' can also be said about Lucic, only Lucic never had that 'sniper shot' upon which he relied on to score. He was able to score in different ways, while playing defence, playing physical, etc. No, Lucic is NOT slower than Neal.

I never saw Lucic as easy to play against either. Heck, I was shocked when Edmonton kept throwing him over the boards against Johnny and Monahan one of those games, and was even more shocked when they couldn't take advantage of this supposed mismatch. Lucic is decent defensively. Not only does he work hard at D, he actually knows what to do, instead of skating back slowly and waving a stick as if it was a magic wand.

I posted before this trade went down that I would be happy with it, as Neal has absolutely no business being in Calgary's lineup. Calgary gave him 5.75 million bucks last year to play hockey, and followed that up by being EXTREMELY patient and continually spoon-feeding him opportunity after opportunity.

The kick in the pants for me was his reaction during the playoffs for not playing enough minutes. He didn't realize he was the least effective player on the ice? Total lack of self-awareness. Proceeds to argue with the coach on the ice in front of the other players, during the playoffs in which the team itself is already rattled? Go talk to Peters in his office AFTER practice, and keep it between the two of you.

I am glad he is gone. Like Lucic or not (and I don't), but at least he is reliable defensively, he is really strong along the boards, he will play physical and actually hit guys, he will stick up for guys if needed, and he has a much broader skill-set that will allow for him to be MORE useful than Neal for the length of that contract. No, it will not surprise me to see Lucic out-produce Neal, but it would absolutely shock me if I didn't think that, outside of his cap-hit, that he is helping this team win rather than lose. Neal helped this team lose. Consistently. He didn't play defence hard at all, and he dragged every other line down that he was ever put on.

This is a definite upgrade in every way.

07-22-2019, 05:04 PM	#58
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	I didn't vote on the Neal FA signing. I actually didn't know what to make of it. Sure, he has consistently been a good scorer, but he was older now and I didn't remember him as a fast player. I was very apprehensive about the term. I thought that perhaps the Flames would get 2 decent years out of him - maybe 3 - but I really didn't know how good or how poorly he would fit. I was actually more optimistic about the Brouwer signing TBH back then. If I compare Neal to Brouwer, I would take Brouwer back in a heartbeat. Why? Well, at least he played hard. He even stuck up for a couple of teammates during his time here. Although he was slow, at least he tried playing defence. Brouwer was also a very poor fit, but at least you could see 'something' that he was doing or at least trying to do. Neal had a handful of games where he looked like he helped this team win, even if it wasn't on the scoreboard. Even when he did get on the scoreboard, those goals usually seemed 'lucky' to me. Ok, in hockey, you make your own luck, and you build off of it. Didn't happen. I echo the sentiments of Flame Draft Watcher and Enoch above - every single time I got to Neal while thinking up line combos, I couldn't fit him in. I had him as the 13th forward, and maybe only because I didn't want another young player sitting and not developing. Dube and Mangiapane are immediate upgrades over Neal. Even if they do nothing at all to put themselves on the scoreboard, at least they can forecheck and backcheck and add to the overall team-speed. As for Lucic, why are so many people insistent that Neal was going to bounce back, but expecting Lucic to bounce back is foolish. Heck, as long as the Oilers don't spoon-feed Neal top line minutes and having McDavid bank pucks off his butt, I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL to see Lucic outscore Neal - AGAIN. I have always been wary of 'one trick ponies' in the NHL. Look at Neal's stats - almost every single season with the exception of 3(?), Neal has produced more goals than assists. Really? Not even second assists? Matched the eye test for me this season with how terrible his vision and playmaking was. He does NOT make people around him better. Why wouldn't I be surprised if Lucic out-produces Neal again? Lucic is the opposite - he has more assists than goals every single season. He is smarter with the puck, and can make players around him better (or at least, knows how to make use of the players around him). So Neal is primarily a goal scorer. How? People claimed that his abnormally low shooting percentage would rebound, and that it was bad luck. I forget who posted it, but in the trade thread there was a poster who showed every single goal Neal scored last season. Anyone see a goalscorer there? If anything, his shooting percentage last season was HIGH, and he was the beneficiary of some good luck. Maybe that's part of him 'not feeling it'. I don't know. I just didn't see a player capable of scoring regularly in the NHL. Sometimes you see players who just lose it quickly. Lucic had atrocious linemates last season. This year, I imagine he gets Hathaway's time, but maybe they put him up with Jankowski and Bennett. Either way, that is better quality of linemates. Also, don't forget about the defencemen - Calgary actually have defencemen - from 1-6 - that can move the puck up quickly either by passing it or skating up with it themselves. They also have defencemen that can actually shoot the damn puck as well. Everything people say about Neal 'bouncing back' can also be said about Lucic, only Lucic never had that 'sniper shot' upon which he relied on to score. He was able to score in different ways, while playing defence, playing physical, etc. No, Lucic is NOT slower than Neal. I never saw Lucic as easy to play against either. Heck, I was shocked when Edmonton kept throwing him over the boards against Johnny and Monahan one of those games, and was even more shocked when they couldn't take advantage of this supposed mismatch. Lucic is decent defensively. Not only does he work hard at D, he actually knows what to do, instead of skating back slowly and waving a stick as if it was a magic wand. I posted before this trade went down that I would be happy with it, as Neal has absolutely no business being in Calgary's lineup. Calgary gave him 5.75 million bucks last year to play hockey, and followed that up by being EXTREMELY patient and continually spoon-feeding him opportunity after opportunity. The kick in the pants for me was his reaction during the playoffs for not playing enough minutes. He didn't realize he was the least effective player on the ice? Total lack of self-awareness. Proceeds to argue with the coach on the ice in front of the other players, during the playoffs in which the team itself is already rattled? Go talk to Peters in his office AFTER practice, and keep it between the two of you. I am glad he is gone. Like Lucic or not (and I don't), but at least he is reliable defensively, he is really strong along the boards, he will play physical and actually hit guys, he will stick up for guys if needed, and he has a much broader skill-set that will allow for him to be MORE useful than Neal for the length of that contract. No, it will not surprise me to see Lucic out-produce Neal, but it would absolutely shock me if I didn't think that, outside of his cap-hit, that he is helping this team win rather than lose. Neal helped this team lose. Consistently. He didn't play defence hard at all, and he dragged every other line down that he was ever put on. This is a definite upgrade in every way.