Quote:
Originally Posted by New Era
So its ridiculous to suggest that the Flames make a deal where they have guarantees that a player they are moving a highly prized asset for is signed to a contract, but your propose the Flames should have guarantees that the player they are moving multiple assets for is going to sign an extension?
A few things on this one.
1st, Frolik is the very type of player teams are trying to bring in for the post season run, not shed. Why would the Flames want to dump Frolik at this time?
2nd, why would the Senators have interest in Frolik? What hole does he fill on their team? How does he move the team forward? Save the "salary cap basement" argument, as there are better options out there where the Senators can get additional assets for eating a salary if they so desire. Arizona has done it multiple times for example. Frolik is a bad fit in this scenario, other than Calgary wants to get rid of him.
3rd, the Flames are packaging their best non-NHL forward asset and their 1st rounder for a guy that may only play for the team for ~30-40 games. Is that wise? I see the suggestion of a secondary "conditional" pick to cover Ottawa's risk if Stone signs an extension, but why not make sure you have that in place before you commit all those assets to the deal in the first place? If Stone doesn't want to be here long term, don't make the deal at all. Keep your powder dry and make a deal that improves the team long term.
I am fully behind giving to get, but you have to make sure you get before you give. You also have to make sure that you remove as much uncertainty from the mix as you can, so that means being certain you have all the salaries in a structure that makes sense prior to pulling the trigger on a deal this big. You crapped all over the idea of making a real hockey trade, but that was one where all uncertainty was removed, and the uncertainty that existed was shipped to the Sens to deal with. Or did the uncertainty aspect not compute?
|
The Flames will not get a guarantee that Stone is going to sign here they roll the dice if they think they can keep him it may be enough to make the deal. One thing that is being ignored here is the fact that Stone is going to want to sign with any team when he is mere months away from getting to pick his team and likely name his price. The way I see it is if the Flames get Stone they will use a package of picks and prospects to do it and may have to cough up an additional high quality draft asset if they can sign the player. Similar to what the Sharks did with Kane or the conditional 5th the Flames sent to the totes when Mike Stone was retained.
Frolik is being replaced in this hypothetical scenario and he has made public noise about his lack of playing time so he makes sense to be the warm body/contract that moves. He is far from useless though so he could provide some value to Ottawa in the short term and also be flipped for assets before his contract expires. He is a $4.3M hit that is owed $3M in money next year. Perfect type of deal that helps the Sens hit the cap floor.
Arizona took Boedker on as opposed to getting a 2nd from a team in conference for Hoffman. It is almost a lock that Melnyk would push Dorian to trade Stone to the west which eliminates many other suitors. There is a pick attached to the Karlsson trade that has the condition met if the Sharks trade Karlsson back east before the deadline. Melnyk has come out and stated that he plans to spend and rebuild quickly so Frolik is a fit short term and a very traceable asset in a years time.
The Flames are taking a risk without the assurance but really when do deadline rentals agree to be signed immediately let along 2 in the same deal? If you give me the option of Stone or Tkachuk on my team at the same money and term it is easily Tkachuk for me no hesitation.
Hockey trades don’t happen with rental players. Like I mentioned earlier if we are in a similar unfortunate situation in Johnny’s contract year we will not have the ability to acquire a slam dunk core piece and we would be looking at a collection of picks and prospects. If the Sens want the type of return you suggest which is a similar player 5.5 years younger with more upside they would of had to make this trade in the summer when the team acquiring had the potential to get a long term deal in place.
Trading for Stone today is not a hockey trade. The Flames pulled off a huge hockey trade last summer with the Canes but trading for a pending free agent happens every year and the currency is picks/prospects/warm bodies not ppg pending RFA’s on the cusp of superstardom. If Stone was a RFA or was in year 2 of a 6 year deal and requested a trade it is a different situation (even then no to trading Tkachuk for him) but we are faced with a team moving a pending ufa because they can’t sign him which means he is in the discount bin