[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by blankall

The issue is that the current liberal system is not working for the working class. It serves only special interest groups and the upper middle class.

And the proposed conservative system is an even worse system. Conservatives want to eliminate the entire social safety net and make social mobility a thing of the past. They want a return to the robber baron era where the rich owned everything, the poor were endured servants and had to buy from the company store, and people stayed in the damn class they were born into. Conservatives care ONLY about THEIR special interest groups and the top 1%.

If people want to push the Clintons are liberal agenda. Then you need to take into account the effect of free trade agreements with Asia and South America, the loosening of securities restrictions, and the establishment of the corporate tax sheltering system have had on the working classes in the USA. This was, as several posters have stated in here, one of the most liberal presidents ever, and his economic policies turned a bad situation into a disastrous one.

The Clintons are far from the "liberal" agenda. They are centrists and more Third Way thinkers. They are definitely more friendly with corporations than they are individuals.

Your assertion that liberals should always be the choice for the working class because they mean well isn't going to get you anywhere with anyone.

I don't disagree with you. But given the two choices that exist in the United States, there is no choice. If you are looking for anyone to represent the poor or those looking for social mobility, the only choice are the Democrats. Republicans have no interest in social mobility. Their only desire is to enrich themselves and make certain they maintain that economic advantage.

I'm not supporting conservative economic policy. In fact, I believe that different situations call for different approaches, and that anyone who states that one party's position is always the right choice is not only wrong but downright dangerous.

Again, I don't disagree, except to say that the Republicans have done NOTHING for the working class in my lifetime. Not a damn thing except to disenfranchise and eliminate their access to the mechanisms that would allow for the mobility we all hope to achieve, and that which is central to the American dream. Things are much different in Canada and I strongly support the greater focus on social responsibility that all Canadians embrace. This is one characteristic that I wish Americans understood and would embrace with greater zeal. But they don't, and they are entrenched in their ways, which is very dangerous indeed. What is even more dangerous are those who don't know how the system works, think they can view the American system through their social lens, and apply their systemic understanding to the behaviors of the political parties in this country. This is almost a form of appeasement and allowing the absolutely abhorrent behaviors of a Party set on pillaging the country's coffers from the many, for the benefit of the few, to become acceptable and condoned.

We may simply be in a situation where there are no parties genuinely supporting working people, and you can't expect the working class to vote Democrat again after they've been let down for the last 8 years.

This is true, but in a binary system you must choose sides. But to choose sides you must understand the responsibility of those in power and the ability to affect change. Democrats held power of two branches of the government for two years, and yes were ineffective (and to clarify, the Democrats have held the majority in zero years of the last eight). This was in part because the Republicans used the filibuster to bring Washington to its knees. I mean, what part of Mitch McConnell coming right out and stating that Republicans would not cooperate with Obama, nor aid him in passing any legislation, did you miss? How did you miss the Republicans preventing a President from nominating his Supreme Court Justice, while ramming their through just two years later? One Party has done everything in their power to govern, while the other has been central to destroying every norm of governance! But it is the Democrats who let the working class down?