Quote:
Originally Posted by squiggs96
I agree with you.
[a bounty of out-of-context posts]
[/a bounty of out-of-context posts]
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I don't have an opinion one way or another about what you're discussing (TBH, I'm terrible at paying attention to who's saying what) but this was pretty unfair IMO.
I clicked on one random example, and in context you're a little dishonest here IMO (and I can only assume that a bunch of what you quoted would show the same)
Quote:
Originally Posted by zamler
Alain Vigneault was fired right after game 82. Gulutzan is still head coach, that makes me think there is still serious consideration being given to bringing him back next season.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
Possible.
From my experience every time I think I have things figured out behind the scenes I'm completely wrong.
Vigneault wouldn't be my choice.
It's Treliving so everything is being considered quite likely.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
The point isnt that they fired their coach, its that they made a decision and executed it promptly.
Whether you want AV or not, the real question is why the Calgary Flames havent made a decision yet.
Honestly, this whole 'Treliving considering everything' thing is beginning to look a lot like decision paralysis.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
I'm super torn to be honest.
I'm just as disappointed as everyone in how the season went, just not as quick to hang the coach for it as I really don't want a return to collapse down low, block shots and counter strike hockey as they had under Hartley.
I fear Vigneault's Ranger teams play a very Hartely-esque style, at least from what I've seen from Ranger fans and his underlying numbers.
But the Peters thing is odd too ... you replace one of two coaches that managed to miss the playoffs with numbers that would suggest otherwise with another ... but I do think Carolina stands out with their save percentage with Darling killing them.
On Treliving I certainly don't think you can hang decision paralysis on the man given the heat he's taking for moving picks, swapping goaltenders, and now potentially moving on to his third coach (one inherited).
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Okay and that makes a degree of sense.
But lets use this comparison:
Our goaltenders totally failed last season. What did he do? Jettisoned them and got new ones.
Our coach has totally failed. What has he done? Why the thumb twiddling?
We all know why, because as coaches go so tend to GMs, but thats not necessarily the case here.
Honestly, I dont have a problem with analyzing things, but much like the jury is out on Gulutzan due to advanced stats that get analyzed over and over again sometimes you just have to make a call.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
You make so many subjective claims in there as if they are facts...
coach has totally failed
GM is twiddling his thumbs
advanced stats get over analzyed
None of those are givens or proven to be true.
If Gulutzan goes ... and I've said over and over that I think he should given his team's in game collapse rate, so I'm not defending him at this point ... it will be under whatever analysis or timing or procedure the Flames have set up.
Could be on the availability of who they want to hire.
He could have already been fired, but they haven't released it.
The request could be in to ownership to jettison a coach and have to pay his salary.
Maybe he's asked Gulutzan if he wants to stay as an assistant and he's mulling it over (stretch).
But to assume the man is just pacing and shaking in fear of making a decision is pretty weak in my opinion.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
1. The coach has failed. (Making the playoffs seems like a given, he didnt = fail)
2. GM is twiddling his thumbs. No decisions have been made.
3. Advanced stats are totally over-analyzed. Our 'advanced stats' put us as one of the best teams in the league, and yet we didnt make the playoffs. So maybe the advanced stats are a huge load of hooey.
I didnt forget the question-mark on that sentence.
Who cares about the availability of who they want to hire? If GG is here or not does that change anything?
If he'd been fired already they'd have released it so he could look for new work.
If ownership is so cheap they just want to keep the guy thats already being paid then that pretty sends the message. Coaches are not immaterial, which is why they're being paid so much now.
I'm not saying that Treliving is pacing and shaking in fear of a decision, but 'evaluating everything' and taking forever to do it is very much the sign of analysis paralysis.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bingo
OK.
I'd hope that a hockey ops group would go a little deeper than your 1,2,3 analysis, but what ever floats your boat.
Sorry to get in the way of your "I have everything figured out" parade.
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I don't know about anyone else, but I definitely don't see anything in that that warrants publicly shaming anyone. Seems like a conversation that started one way, took a turn, two vastly different opinions, subjective vs analytic, shutdown of the analysis, 'whatever floats your boat', and everyone moved on. If anything, I detect a bit of frustration that the discussion devolved into.
Either way, maybe a PM if you're that interested in helping Bingo improve his posting style. FTR, if anyone has an issue with anything I say I will happily receive your PM. I'm only 90% perfect.