[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Are you being deliberately obstuse? Where did I say anything about Christianity being superior?

You inferred as much when you ask, "Can you name any non-Christian cultures where people feel collectively guilty about things their grandparents and great-grandparents did or believed?" You're basically making a statement that all other cultures and belief systems do NOT have the capacity to harbor guilt or acknowledge the mistakes or wrongs their own forefathers had committed, that this was uniquely a Christian practice and something to be celebrated - hence being superior. I would say that you not recognizing this inference would make you obtuse in the way you present your arguments.

If you're such an avid follower of my posts, you'll have noted I take a left of centre approach to almost all economic issues. I'm pro sales tax, pro public health care and education. I voted NPD provincially and Liberal federally. Almost every time someone pipes up here about taxes and the Alberta advantage and wasteful government, I'm here defending public services and criticizing the low tax rates in this province and reliance on royalties to fund government.

I really don't care about your economic views. These discussions rarely speak to economic issues, they focus on social and philosophical issues. You continually attack the "left" - or that which you perceive to be this leftist boogeyman you've constructed by listening to these flawed "intellectuals" - and are relentless in your pursuit to convert people to your perspective. There is a reason why this thread was changed to "the intellectual dark web" and its because the many people and theories you present are the fringe. You accept these commentaries as evidence of a massive problem sweeping the universities and colleges of the country, when the evidence just doesn't support such tropes. Yet you ignore the evidence and continue to swallow this stuff. If you identify as a liberal, you're one of the most self-loathing liberals I've ever seen and just don't ascribe to the foundations of liberalism.

But the fact that when you say 'left' you evidently mean the cultural progressive left is telling in itself. When the animating force on the left went from universal economic issues to identity politics, that's when they lost their way, and played right into the hands of the far right.

I'm actually using YOUR terms. You are the one setting the boundaries in these discussions and people are just following your lead, picking your arguments to tiny pieces. So please stop trying to project your misguided understanding of the political sphere on others as you try to defend your position. People are arguing using your terms and your framing against you, even when the goalposts shift.

I like to think I'm a fairly good communicator,

No, you're not. Obviously you are failing to be a good communicator because people routinely do not get the point of what you are trying to say, and then interpret you saying the counter.



I'm sure you like to consider yourself quite the intellectual, because you can quote Peterson, Harris, Pinker, Fry, and Shapiro (sounds like a really lame law firm). But you're not one of those either. Listening to podcasts and being able to post links to what OTHER people think, does not make you an intellectual. Developing a greater understanding of the subject matter, the connections between those subject matters, and being able to communicate that effectively is where you need to start.

But if you are at all interested in carrying on, please take a few minutes out of your life and watch the Stephen Fry speech. Then get back to me and say whether you think Fry is a liberal.

Yes, I've seen this debate. I watched it and commented on the first time you posted this same debate. Stephen Fry is a liberal. But you sir, are no Stephen Fry. Fry is a great communicator and he understands the subject matter. Fry speaks to the subject with clarity and makes his point. He does so eloquently and with an exclamation point. If you actually listened to what he was saying, he was speaking to YOU.


"All of this has to stop, this rage this hostility, this resentment, intolerance, above all this wither store against us. A certainty. A grand canyon has opened up in our world, and the fissure the crack grows wider every day. Neither on each side can hear a word the other shrieks, and nor do they want to. While these armys, and propagandists in the culture wars clash, down below in the enormous space between the two sides, the people of the world try to get on with their lives alternatively baffled, bored, and betrayed by the horrible noises and explosions that echo all around. I think its time for this toxic binary zero sum madness to stop before we destroy ourselves."


You are one of those propagandists he's talking about. You are the one carrying the water for the culture warriors like Peterson (has it ever dawned on you that he would have no voice whatsoever if not for his instance on speaking to the culture war on behalf of men everywhere?). You are one keeping these issues alive. The evidence does not support your claims of universities and colleges harboring such environments. It is a figment of the imagination of these supposed intellectuals - an argument they must continue to forward themselves to remain relevant, as their work as scholars in their schools is no longer maintaining their position or feeding their egos. They speak of a very small minority of people and events, and they are statistically insignificant. Only the carryings on of your heroes in the lame law firm keep these things relevant. Because, as Fry eloquently puts it, "the people of the world try to get on with their lives alternatively baffled, bored, and betrayed by the horrible noises and explosions that echo all around." My suggestion is to find a new windmill to tilt against. This one appears done.