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Old 05-04-2018, 02:18 PM   #710
CliffFletcher
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Makarov View Post
But our economy, our culture, our institutions, and our people treat people differently because their gender/race. Do you not find that to be an illiberal idea?
Yes. Which is why liberals have been fighting discrimination for decades. But you don't fight illiberalism with another strain of illiberalism. They don't cancel each other out - they just make our society less liberal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makarov View Post
If we shouldn't use legislation or other policy tools to address these illeberal facts (even if clumsily or imperfectly), what should we use?
We should continue using the approach that has resulted in us having the most tolerant, prosperous, and liberal society the world has ever seen - liberalism. It's why our society is better in almost every way than it was 50 or 100 years ago. It's working.

On the topic of racism, for example, in 1968 only 20 per cent of Americans approved of interracial marriage. Today, 83 per cent approve. Clearly we're doing something right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Makarov View Post
What is the alternative solution?
Well, there's no solution to the human condition. After all, we're violent, status-seeking primates who for much of our history as a species were yoked to our most brutal instincts. If we reduce murder by 90 per cent there will still be murder. Reduce it by 90 per cent again and there will still be murder. Same with every other human failing.

All we can strive for is progress. The good new is we've made astonishing progress in the last 200 years, and especially the last 50 years. Abandoning liberalism now only makes sense if you don't recognize the progress we've already made, and why we made it. Which, sadly, seems to be the case for a great many on the left today.
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Originally Posted by fotze View Post
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Last edited by CliffFletcher; 05-04-2018 at 02:49 PM.
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