[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Thanks DeluxeMoustache - great write-up.

I am a big believer in the 'get the goalie moving' argument, and especially passes across the Royal Road (bad name though).

I would like to see these stats for the Flames offensively. We can sit here and say they are too static, too set, but we need data to know for sure. But it certainly wouldn't surprise me to hear that they had fewer of these types of chances.

I am actually even more interested about this type of data defensively. IMO, when you play a more passive defensive strategy, being concerned more with positioning and getting sticks in lanes, you are far more vulnerable to the cross-ice pass. Teams have time to set these plays up because they aren't being pressured as much. And again, I don't have the stats for the Flames, but it sure seems to me that they give up a lot of those. In fact, I think that is the source of their problems defensively (one major source, to be more accurate).

I haven't watched Peters' teams enough to know how he coaches, but I have read a couple comments that make me think he employs a similar passive defensive strategy to Gulutzan (and some of the stats from last year seem to back that up). If that is the case, I will be very disappointed. That would probably be the end of Treliving for me (and I am a big supporter of Treliving).

I wonder if there is any way we can get these stats for the Flames.

I get your thought process on the bolded, but maybe it is actually the opposite? I mean, I have always preferred a more aggressive defensive system, but...

If your defence is set and they are only interested in blocking shots and getting in the way of shooting/passing lanes, it becomes fairly difficult for a player on offence to pass the puck across the ice from the hashmarks down. You are more likely than not to have that puck intercepted or blocked before arriving anywhere close to your teammate's stick.

I am looking back at Hartley's year while the Flames were decent defensively even though they certainly lacked defensive talent. Hiller and Ramo were both decent that year. The defence allowed those outside shots (though they would try and block them as well). They never really pressured the opposing team, but rather allowed the team to set-up and pass it around the perimeter. Breakdowns did happen from time to time of course, but all in all they were consistent in their own zone.

The following season both Ramo and Hiller started the year terribly. Those routine saves would sometimes find a hole and sneak in. What changed after that? I thought the Flames started to run around in their own zone too much. Once you start being overly aggressive on defence, you run the risk of 'chasing' and getting out of position. That's when more shooting lanes and passing lanes open up.

It just may be that because the defence started 'worrying' about their goaltenders, they started to second-guess their position. When Ramo came back up and played well, the defence seemed calmer (going off memory here - which may be wrong) and they didn't chase as much, once again allowing perimeter play.

I always thought that Hartley had implemented his passive shot blocking system to compensate for the lack of talent from the defencemen as a whole, but perhaps that was what he was chiefly concerned with - not allowing the high danger chances where the opposition is making those cross-ice passes, and by playing a bit deeper and getting into the lanes, it allowed for a higher chance of a Flames player to reach the rebounds?

I expected an aggressive defence under Gulutzan, but he had a mostly passive defence too. Not so much on shot-blocking, but with an emphasis on 'cross-ice pass' blocking it seemed. Defencemen would generally sprawl on the ice trying to take away the bottom pointed north-south trying to stop the pass, rather than laying east-west trying to stop the shot.

Thanks Gargamel for the info on how they define High danger chances. It is what I thought - there is no regard to if the goalies had to move prior to making the save (or attempting to make the save) laterally.

Under Brent Sutter and under Glen Gulutzan, the Flames were often guilty of making the opposing goalies look like heroes, but although they got the puck on net quite often, the goalies often didn't get much of a workout. Hartley and Keenan had a much more dynamic offensive system, and it isn't surprising that many players achieved career years under them.

I think you saw something similar under Keenan and Brent Sutter - this team played dreadfully in front of backups. Anyone remember?

I wonder if a lot had to do with not trusting the goalie, and then the defencemen over-compensating and getting out of position as a consequence, allowing for these higher chance shots. The narrative makes sense to me - I do remember the team playing almost scatter-brained on D whenever it was a goalie not named Kipper in net. Hartley's last year seemed like almost an entire season of watching those teams play in front of backups.

Interesting.