[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Of course you can pass judgement - in the same way you do any time you get something you don't like - go somewhere else next time. Complain if you want or write a bad review.

Yet a post or two back you made it seem like it is the wrong thing to do or something. I am confused.

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

The problem is that restaurants have zero incentive to pay fair wages and increase prices: they'll have less customers with higher prices, they'll have trouble hiring good staff, they'll pay higher payroll taxes, and they'll have higher costs than competitors. So it just won't happen. Every restaurant that tries it gives up on it very quickly. There have been many.

I think you are stating the obvious...we don't like the current model and really haven't offered any ideas on how to move the system to a no tip model. It may be too late. Not sure what you are debating. The fact though is that servers (or ex servers) seem to feel strongly about the existing model, versus getting paid by their employer. The only reason offered for that in this thread is the tax free earnings.

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

So the next obvious solution would be to tack on a "service fee" to every bill, which should be the same as increasing wages and increasing prices. But people hate that - they don't get to use the tip to pass judgement as it's no longer discretionary and so any type of automatic gratuity is just absolutely hated. Aside from very high-end places, or for large groups where this has become the norm because of cheapskates, businesses that have gone the service fee route also quickly give up on it.

A service fee to eat somewhere? LOL. Again, people being called cheapskates. Focus your energy on the employers, they are the ones not paying enough.

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

And why I say this is about power: because every restaurant and bar that tries to be fair to employees and remove tipping has almost the same experience. The biggest reason they have to go back to tipping is that in our culture tipping has created an entitlement to use that extra little bit of money on a bill to pass judgement, good or bad. The customers who complain the most are often those that want to tip the most: can't get the pretty waitress's number without tipping and also can't pay a proper compliment to their level of attractiveness; can't complain about the ranch dressing properly without withholding the tip.

I don't agree with the power bit, the judgement bit or the section on the server's attractiveness. Seriously, WTF? Just stop.

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

My view is this: if people stop thinking about tipping as optional, or something to be adjusted based on satisfaction with a server, we'd slowly be able to ween ourselves away from this crappy model. Just tip 15% every time and don't think about where that money goes or why you should or shouldn't tip in the circumstances. Then places could succeed with the service fee model and eventually just increase wages and do away with tipping altogether. Until then, tip when and what you're supposed to and just factor it into all restaurant and bar costs without adjusting up or down.

This is so crazy. People should simply hand their money over? And that will solve the problem? This thread has descended into madness.

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

That raising the minimum wage brought on this conversation at all is an example of this: tipping has made everyone think they should be an arbiter of what servers should be paid without knowing anything else aside from that the minimum wage has increased. There is an assumption food prices will increase, maybe drink prices, maybe servers will make more money, or maybe better service will be enjoyed by all because it will become more lucrative and competitive. Who knows? I generally don't make a lot of assumptions about what goes on behind the scenes at my grocery store or gas station: restaurants and bars should be no different.

Too bad you don't pay attention to those things, you probably should (and I actually don't believe you).

The scam for years is that the tip pays the server's bills because the restaurant won't. Not sure how we got suckered for that for so long. Now that the restaurant has increased the pay, the customer should be less on the hook for the server's bills as it has fallen back on their employer's shoulders - just like any other job.

I tip pretty high and eat out frequently. The subject is not isolated to those that cannot afford it, cheapskates and perverts. We are free to criticize how we spend our money and to criticize social pressures to behave a certain way when we see massive holes.