[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bunk

At a minimum the Red Strip here for commercial uses (they could also probably go vertical on the corners of the site for hotels and stuff) is surplus to the needs of the arena itself. I think this was part of the intent to give the Flames some real estate to work with for long term revenue. Now, if the Flames want some more - maybe negotiate the stuff across the street on Olympic Way abutting the casino?

This may be the most ridiculous thing introduced in this thread. This is your idea of a reasonable parcel of land for development of anything? Did you actually look and see how big that parcel is? It is eight cars wide. And on that you're going to build "hotels and stuff?" That's going to be quite the entertainment district.

Originally Posted by Bunk

They really apparently willing to give land and 1/3 of cost, so that's a pretty tangible indication of what the proportion they are viewing as widely public benefit. Ticket tax is also a 1/3 component, which is a direct user pay model - so an indication of the direct user benefit. And 1/3 owner benefit which seems more than fair - since they will see most of the revenue upside directly.

Except that the city isn't putting up anything. They are basically co-signing the loan and waiting for the money to be paid back. The post where you claimed to be so right, when you were so wrong, proved that in spades. There are so many here that are pissed about the Flames using the ticket tax as a means to pay for a chunk of their portion, but that is their long term revenue they using for the project. This is revenue they are giving up on every ticket sold. Conversely, the city is just covering a loan with their 1/3 commitment. The Flames have to pay that back. So in reality, the team is paying 1/3 up front, 1/3 in ticket revenues, and then 1/3 in a co-signed loan they are paying back to the city. The Flames pay for it all, and get to do so on a piece of land where there are no other enrichment opportunities, unless you think a piece of land 8 cars wide is suitable for anything but frontage.

Originally Posted by getbak

The Flames will see the biggest benefit from a new building. Why shouldn't they shoulder a significant amount of the cost?

They are. IN almost every deal that has been made public the Flames are paying the largest share, and to the tune of two thirds. The major caveat being the external costs of infrastructure improvements and site remediation, which should go to the interests responsible for those assets.

Also, originally, the Flames were simply a tenant of the Saddledome and paid rent to the city for the use of the building. The Stampede board operated the building. The Flames received the revenue from in-arena advertising and ticket sales.

Do you think there's any chance the Flames would agree to go back to that arrangement if the city paid for the whole new building?

No, they wouldn't, and they shouldn't. There are other opportunities out there where they wouldn't subject themselves to similar situations. The city and the Flames should put their egos aside and negotiate in good faith. I think both sides have been to blame in this mess, but the latest leaked offer, the one Bunk erroneously credited as being a fair deal, is the biggest and most underhanded move by either side. I can see the city wanting to limit the funds spent on this, especially when they have to concern themselves with assets like another downtown library, a music museum, and an expansion of the performing arts center, but they should be a little more on the up-and-up than the charade they just tried to pull.

Also, what's going to happen in the next five years to suddenly kill the Flames' revenue? They still have one of the largest arenas in the league and have some of the highest ticket prices. Concession prices keep climbing too.

It isn't just about revenues, its about expenses. The cost of doing business keeps going up too. As that cap rises, it puts pressure on the Flames spending to keep pace. As the league changes, the Flames have to keep up to remain competitive. Players have greater demands for training now than they have in the past. New facilities are needed to support this. Hockey operations is becoming more expensive in that scouting requires more investment. Player development is more expensive with changes in those leagues. Costs continue to increase and the team needs to continue to find new ways to generate revenues.

I'm waiting for the many pissed off season ticket holders in this thread to do the right thing here. If they are so pissed off with the way the club is operating, they should be demanding refunds or turning their tickets in and recouping their money through the ticket exchange. But these people won't do that. Their invested in the team and deep down they know that if this team leaves it will be a very long time, if ever, before NHL hockey graces Calgary again. And for that to happen, it will be the citizens of Calgary paying full boat for a new arena, not the 33% of a new arena suggested by the hockey team.

Most of this board cannot remember what it was like to NOT have the Flames. Most of this board doesn't know what it is like to have the Stampeders (remember that third rate football league?) as the big sense of civic pride. As an old fart I can tell you that those days were pretty bleak and I wouldn't wish them on anyone. Talk tough all you want, but if Calgary loses the Flames they will lose a big chunk of the spirit behind the city. I guarantee you won't ever see a "shirts off for Rachmaninoff" movement when the CPO moves into their new tax-payer funded concert hall. You won't see a parade through downtown when a new exhibition is established in the tax-payer funded National Music Center. You're not going to see car flags adoring every second vehicle when the business incubator produces a new start up that withers and dies 18 months later. There is something about sports that brings us all together, that allows us to find common bonds, even when we are so different. That brings values to the community and gives a spirit to mass of humanity that makes up the city. Don't let the city lose that. For those of us old enough to remember Calgary with out that, it was a very different place, and it really sucked.