[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Your talking hypotheticals instead of looking at what has actually happened.

You're speaking about a hypothetical as well. You have no idea how well Jagr will be fit into the team, adapt to the style of play, or if he even has anything left in the tank at 45 years of age. You're making a massive assumption that he is going to be better than anyone instead of considering the very likelihood that he will not be able to compete. This is why he doesn't have a contract yet, why teams are not tripping allover themselves to sign Jagr. Time catches up with everyone, and teams assume risk by extending contracts to older players. To me, this is a risk management issue more than it is anything else.

A couple of off seasons ago Raymond was coming off a terrific season and wouldn't be sent down.

What? Mason Raymond never had a "terrific" season in Calgary. He had a good start out of the gate and became hot garbage by Christmas in his first season. People were demanding him be dumped in the summer of 2015, and were pissed when he made the team and did nothing all of 2015-16, until they sent him down in Februray of 2016. Then the Flames bought him out that summer. So yes, Mason Raymond and his contract was trouble and hindrance to a player getting their chance.

There wasn't anyway that Russell could be traded, they liked him too much. Glencross wasn't going to be moved in a playoff run.

Again, what? Russell and Glencross were in trade rumors for quite some time. But the Flames couldn't make an equal roster move until these players were dealt or the roster limit was expanded after the trade deadline. But both of these players are kind of irrelevant to the discussion because they were still players that were contributing, and were moved as a result of expiring contracts, not to make room for other players.

Bollig was a character guy so he wasn't getting demoted. Bouma. Colborne. Grossman. McGrattan. Etc. Etc. Etc. All guys that supposedly would never be moved but were to make way for other players.

Bollig is the only player that was demoted out of camp. The only ONE. Bouma was bought out after a horrible season. Colborne was not offered a contract. McGrattan was demoted mid-season, but only because his role in the game had disappeared. None of these guys were demoted to make room for a kid knocking at the door.

Grossman is actually the exact scenario were should be afraid of with Jagr. Grossman was signed because of his veteran presence. He stunk on ice in camp and no one wanted him around. But in the lineup he was, keeping a kid who outplayed him sitting in the pressbox, not getting the opportunity they deserved. And Grossman proved all the naysayers correct but costing the Flames at least two games as a result of his putrid play. He just couldn't keep up, and the error was glaring. But the damage had been done and the team had to terminate the contract before American Thanksgiving.

That is the concern with bringing in old slow guys.

There is nothing about this generation of Flames coaching and management to suggest they won't move/bench/demote guys like Versteeg and Stajan to make room for a young guy that is ready to make an impact.

There is zero reason to worry that a veteran could hypothetically take the spot of a kid when that hasn't happened with this coach or GM. In fact the opposite has consistently happened.

Except that there are plenty of examples to show this has happened, and will continue to happen. You just presented many of them, even if you tried to spin them as examples of the opposite.

Originally Posted by Love

That shouldn't be on Jagr though. It should be on Brouwer or Lazar who he surpasses. It's not like Jagr is going to be the 12th best forward on the roster, he is a clear upgrade on many of our bottom six forwards.

And if both Brouwer and Lazar out play Jagr? It is very likely that Jagr is going to the weakest player on the roster, who they are going to have to shelter by playing him with a strong two-way player. Bringing him in to play with Bennett, and saddling Bennett with the defensive responsibilities, would be a huge gamble.

One last point that keeps coming up that is actually being incorrectly used to suggest that vets will get bumped if a young player shows their mettle. Monahan, Bennett, and Tkachuk are very different cases and can't be used as examples of the team forcing a player into the lineup. The Flames hands were very much tied in those situations because of the options they had in playing the player. If they elected to send them down, they were gone for the season and could only play in junior. That is a very different scenario than being able to send a player to the minors and let them play there, recalling them if they desire. These guys were play them, or lose them for the season moves. If anything, this is another example of contract status hurting the guys in the minors, because if other courses of action were possible, it is likely Bennett and Tkachuk would have been sent to the minors and not kept on the NHL roster. Same thing happens around the league, and it is a systemic problem. Players only get the chance to play because of opportunity, and this loophole in the agreement between the CHL and NHL provides opportunities not available to all players.