Quote:
Originally Posted by edslunch
I'm not taking sides on the Obama argument but this statement doesn't ring true. During his administration both Libya and Syria became disasters and ISIS rose to prominence. I'd have to say the Middle East is in worse shape than when he started.
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Sure, but that's not on Obama...
Syria and Libya started as civil uprisings and were part of the 'Arab Spring' that many thought would lead to fundamental changes to the region....
there were many internal issues in both countries that boiled over leading to the current civil wars (though Libya has a UN cease fire in place) - where now a bunch of other actors are involved, which has lead to wider ranging regional reverberations...
the US were not involved in either country, outside of normal diplomatic relations, so I don't know how the US can be blamed for either situation either.
ISIS is another matter entirely and they were well underway before Obama took power... while one could argue that he should have kept US forces in Iraq longer, there are a number of facts that need to be reiterated:
1) the date for the withdrawal of US forces from Iraq at the end of 2011, the Status of Forces Agreement, that set the deadline was signed by Bush, not Obama.
2) It is pretty much agreed upon that one of the major seeds of ISIS was the disbanding of the Iraq Military, the so called de-Baathification of the new Iraq government happened under Paul Bremer, a Bush appointee
3) Sectarian violence and oppression in the restructuring of Iraq... now it gets way more complicated, and i certainly am not an expert on this...but it boils mainly down to the sunnis versus the sh i i te and all the complicated history and the countries involved there.
the problem with civil wars is that you really don't have any authority to go into those countries without a UN mandate (ie consensus/coalition building) and then Colin Powell's "Pottery Barn" rule is always in play.
One could argue that the Middle East has been, historically, carved up and occupied so many times, and that this history of imperialism (US, England, France) has not helped anyone at all...