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Originally Posted by CaramonLS
I specifically said "deranged form of tribalism" when talking about identity politics. The way identity politics has currently manifested pits groups against other groups. You see this in the "privileged vs. the oppressed" narrative. In groups vs. out groups.
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It really doesn't though. Identity politics is the response of an out group rebelling against an in group, if you want to look at it that way. The desired end result is being part of the in group, or being equal to the in group (which essentially just makes them part of it). But in groups and out groups arent exclusive to tribalism. Like almost every movement or philosophy ever held by humans on earth in our entire history, there are both great and terrible examples.
Identity politics aren't a bad example of tribalism, they're an example of tribalism, which itself is not a bad thing in any way. In both cases, you'll find examples where the existence of it is helpful/beneficial or harmful.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaramonLS
That doesn't imply that tribalism is inherently bad or that it does not work or to discount it's role in human evolution.
I also contend your characterization of nationalism being inherently worse than tribalism at breeding hostility. They happen to share many of the same characteristics and in many ways nationalism is simply an evolution of tribalism on a grander scale, large doses can be toxic.
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I mis-typed that a little bit. I was suggesting nationalism was about the same potentially negative capacity as tribalism. Individualism is the worst thing on Cliff's list, by far. From an scientific evolutionary standpoint especially.