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Originally Posted by Strange Brew
You can't perpetually rebuild.
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Right. And the problem with the Flames wasn't perpetually rebuilding. It was NEVER rebuilding. So odd comment
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Originally Posted by Strange Brew
The Jokinen trade made sense to me at the time. In hindsight you are right. And obviously Sutter made some bad deals, there is no debating this. But he also left the team with some nice pieces.
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The Jokinen deal isn't one I object too strongly to either. The deals that really set the organization back were the Phaneuf trade, the second Jokinen trade (that eventually would also cost them a 2nd to off-load Kotalik) and a lot of other secondary deals (like the Stralman one).
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Originally Posted by Strange Brew
I don't know what an asset diminishing trade really means. Most trades are assets for assets, sometimes they are about potential for present value. If a trade makes you older, is it asset diminishing? Is trading 3 high picks for 5 years of Dougie Hamilton worth it if you know your team won't be a contender during that time? Do you really need to pay top dollar for Troy Brouwer for veteran leadership when you don't expect to be a contender during any of the prime years of his contract? Do you trade a high second round pick for a backup goalie with one year on his deal if you are rebuilding? Why are you buying a guy out of his contract in a year when you're not a contender, creating a cap burden for the following year?
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An asset diminishing trade is one that leaves you with less organizational value than before. Now sometimes you do that to go for the win, but the Flames were kidding themselves based on the team they had.
Yes I make that deal for Hamilton ALL DAY LONG. You are assuming you just get 5 years out of him and don't get anything for him when he is done as a Flames. But as an asset - he has huge value.
They didn't trade a second for a backup. They traded for a guy who had excellent statistical evidence to suggest he could start. Hasn't worked out but virtually everyone thought it was good value.
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Originally Posted by Strange Brew
My point is that current management hasn't really shown they are good at this rebuilding thing, and I'm not prepared to give then credit for it. All they've done is have the luxury of high draft picks by fielding a crappy team, and holding auctions for their pending UFA's at the deadline. That's not yet enough for me to say they are so different from previous regimes.
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Ok sure. And that's not what we have been arguing. I've not given them credit for a successful rebuild because they haven't done it.
This discussion is about the state of the organization when they took over and the lack of assets.
So you are now arguing something different.
Though I would counter that extracting value at the deadline is a HELLUVA improvement over what happened for a long time before.