[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

There are two kind of connected points that I wanted to bring up, after all the "disconnected elite" accusations after this election. Here is my question--you have a huge group of people, these rust belt former steel workers/coal miners, other blue collar workers from the rust belt and midwest, and yes, they're worried for their jobs and wellbeings. They want manufacturing jobs back that were eaten up by the move of progress and automation. They want coal jobs back that were eaten up by cheaper/safer forms of energy that we're unlikely to regress back to.

Agree with this premise completely.

But they're also terrified of the country suddenly becoming far more black, more brown, more Asian, more Latino, more gay, more trans, etc. They're afraid of change that is completely inevitable.

These people are worried, and I get that they're worried. But by the same token, they refuse to see what is plainly in front of them. Progress moves forward. America is getting less and less white and no government can legislate against that diversity.

Their best call is to broaden their horizons--realize that these incoming immigrants and refugees have the same concerns, that they just want to put food on the table for their families and have job security. To realize that gay Americans just want to marry the person they love the same as anyone else. That these people who are different from them aren't out to get them.

These people consistently vote against their own best interests, and attempting to persuade them with facts and logic and statistics just puts their guard up against the "elites." Insulting them just makes them even more rigid.

Calm reasoning doesn't work. Shaming doesn't work. Discussion doesn't work.

So what is the answer? How do you respond to people who will actively vote against their own best interests and flat out refuse any kind of dissension, no matter how valid and fact-based it is?

I'm not attempting to argue, this is an honest request, because I am absolutely surrounded by people exactly like this and I want to effect some kind of change, but I honestly have no idea how we're supposed to handle this.

This is where you start to lose me. While I can agree that there is a portion of the Republican party which are racist, homophobic and xenophobic, you cannot lump these people together as one homogeneous group. I don't think that most Trump supporters are all that concerned about LGBT issues or see other issues (like the economy) as much more important. I think that sort of stuff only appeals to certain segments of the party.

You're in PA - you should see some of this, but the reason some people think illegal immigration and refugees are a big issue is because they think they are losing jobs because of it. As an unemployed worker, you see illegal immigrants coming across the border, you look at it and see one more person that you have to compete with for that job. And he can probably do it cheaper than you. Then the government talks about amnesty for these people and all you can think about is what the hell are they doing to help me when I can't find work?

Then you see them talk about refugees from Syria. Knowing that when they come over they are going to be placed in subsidized housing, given English language training, opportunities to find work. Again, these people think about all that money used on refugees that could be going to help Americans find work while they are struggling to pay their power bill.

Then they see news stories about how some of these immigrants and refugees have chosen not to integrate, involve themselves with extremism and that continues to piss them off further because again they squandered the opportunity to live in America and wasted money doing it, while they themselves are struggling day to day to get by. You then see that Obama won't call a spade a spade by referencing Islamic terrorism, but Trump will, he won't take any of that ****.

Then only one candidate decides to appeal to them directly by speaking about renegotiating unfair trade deals which caused their factories to close. Talks about limiting H-1B visas because they feel they are bringing in foreign professionals to work for cheaper (speaks to American exceptionalism). While the other barely campaigns in your state. Maybe some people do think the jobs will come back, but others look at other protected Industries (like Agriculture) and sees them doing well and probably thinks that if we did reduce free trade, some of the jobs would come back.

Then you come by and call them a racist and they get their backs up. Not once did they really even think about race when working through the above equation and they shut you out completely. Rightly or wrongly they are looking out for themselves and trying to get by. They've seen wages stagnate over the last 40-50 years and think things are getting worse.

That success is not a zero sum game in this country. They need help with access to information, they live in communities that need better infrastructure, they are going bankrupt from health problems and they need the ACA to be expanded, not repealed.

I don't think everyone sees it that way. There is a mind set that you need to get yours and if you don't step up and take it, someone else will. There is only a finite amount of resources or jobs to go around.

Listen, I am not saying that this logic is foolproof, because it isn't, nor is it meant to be. But I can understand why someone voted for Trump and why they may have thought it was in their best interests to do so.

I'll put in a disclaimer for some of the confused that think I may support Trump, because I don't. I would have voted for Hillary if I was able to.