[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Partioning creates what imbalance? Other than oilfieds then what? Power vacuum would be filled instantly. Syria and Iran would instantly be taking over their own sections. Kurds with American support handle the north.

Their own sections? What would those own sections be? Do you have any idea of the ethnic make up of the regions being discussed and how those ethnic groups transend the borders? Obviously not.

Nope still don't see a valid argument against partition. None actually from those in power or those with the power of opinion.

Of course you don't. You some how think America can maintain a military presence in the region and come out of this whole. That isn't going to happen without further violence.

It's a clean way out and by far the easiest. What you propose Lanny would never work. Two Muslim groups who HATE each other and have fought each other before agreeing to sort out the peace because they are worried about refugees? Are you kidding?

I guess you haven't been paying attention over the past 15 years. Did you miss where hundreds of thousand of people have tried to escape Iraq during the different military actions, only to be held up at the borders of neighboring countries? How the hell do you think the Kurd issue got so out of hand? Turkey prevented the Kurds from going into their country. Same with Syrians and the Iranians. The key is to develop an environment that keeps people in their homes and prevents a stream of refugees. That is done through regional stabalization which is done through the cooperation of the various tribal leaders, who happen to transend international borders. That is why all the region must be involved to foster the regional stability.

Which country would be speaking on behalf of the Kurds? I know Turkey and Iran would be working against them.

If you turn this into a region matter, and appeal to the tribal roots of the peoples involved, Turkey, Iran and Syria all will have a stake. Historical and geographic Kurdistan occupy portions of these three countries. It would be in their best interest to insure political and ethnic stability to prevent internal strife from this tribe.

No I don't think you have a solution other than cut and run. Actually yours sounds like the one I heard last night from Z.B on the PBS channel which is Blame and run. Dump it on somebody else and run and then start the blame game.

Nice talking point. Too bad its full of ****. At no time did I say just leave. I stated that the United States could possibly save face by getting the regional powers to assist in finding the peace. That means they get to transition out as the regional powers transition in.

And please save your mindkless bluster about the blame game. There is NO ONE ELSE to blame but the United States. They were the ones who invaded. They were the ones who turned a stable, albeit unfriendly, soverign nation, upside down and into the cesspool it is. NO ONE ELSE. This has been said for years, so the game is already complete. Everyone on the planet knows who is to blame, so the idea of using that as a defense is nothing but mindless bull**** from people who still believe going into Iraq was the right thing to do (and there are very few of those left).

Frankly, there does come a point where you do have to make the tough decision and withdraw for the good of all parties involved. The time has come for that in Iraq. Staying longer will resolve nothing. We've heard all the same tired talking points from your buddies for the past three years that the corner is about to be turned and things are about to get better. No, things are getting worse, by the day. American involvement is only making things worse. When 70% of the people surveyed in Iraq want the U.S. out, and believe that their departure will lead to peace, its time to leave.

Partition works even if there was a another battle between rival Muslims. USA can then just shake it's head and blame them -- Kurds are safeguarded. Can't think of a single reason why they don't just split them up!!

What makes you think the Kurds are going to accept American help? Americans don't have a very good reputation in Iraq, especially with the Kurds. These are the same people that the Americans promised to protect after the Gulf War, and immediately left to their own devices, allowing Hussein to hammer the crap out of them. Why would they accept anything from America? Spend some time trying to understand the history of the region Johnny, it may surprise you to find there are ways to make this work that function outside the western norms that the Americans are trying to force on the people of the region.