[Lanny_MacDonald]

Originally Posted by JohnnyFlame

Oh so the Dem's appeal to smart votes and the Republicans work to their dumber base. Is that about it?

Wow Johnny, you got some major league balls. You call people out on their posting habits and then come up with the beauties in this thread? You call out the Democrats for making a claim they did not, and then go on to lambaste the Democrats as "wussies". Fart! You like to claim that you are an original thinker, and say that others are not, yet you repeat nothing but talking points and show zero comprehension of the issue. Great work!

Funny but from afar although yes I have lived in the States and in one of the funniest political states of them all(Louisiana) it looks like the Dem's position on the IRAQ war was hell yeah I vote go get them.

The truth of the matter is quite different from the way you put it. The President was give the authority to go to war IF diplomacy was exhausted. The house voted on giving the President the ability to use this as an option, not an immediate step. In fact, many on both sides of the aisle have said they did not vote for war as the declaration was not tabled and has yet to be tabled. There is a very big difference between what was voted on and what happened after the fact. Both sides agree on that to varying degrees.

Yes I vote give the boys more money to conduct the war. Whoops too many body bags and we can use the no WMD thing against the Rep's.

So you're saying the false pretenses were okay. It was okay for the Bush administration to pull a fast one and submit erroneous intelligence to the house that allowed for a positive vote? Sounds more like what went on in the Politbureau.

OK we are out of here and we would have never gone in in the first place if we had been given proper intelligence.

Nawww, its much better to stay in the middle of a civil war where the people do not want us there. Much better solution. We must "stay the course", even if it kills and bankrupts us.

Now we would love to cut and run but that would get a whole lot of people killed(as Bush and the boys point out).

Nice talking point. Not at all what has been said, but good soundbite.

So let's go with we'll run the war better and get the boys home quicker.

Run the war better? And how is that going to happen? Bush and his cronies have not listened to the experts (the generals) yet, so why would they start now? It is well past the point of control. The only thing to do is to pull back to a safe distance and maintain a perimeter. The people of Iraq now have to find their own way, and the only way they will do that is by fighting it out. We started this mess, and the best thing we can do is get out of the way and let the regional powers come in and find the solution. Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia and Turkey all have a stake in this and they are the ones that should be looked to clean up this mess. The United States can no longer do anything other than continue to bleed the taxpayers in this country dry.

So basically a complete turn around on the main issue as they can't argue the economy which is always what many people base their vote on.

The economy is very much a topic the Democrats, and anyone else, should be arguing on. The only indicators that are looking good are the stock market and the banks. Yup, BIG business is doing great and it is showing in stock performance, but the reality of the matter is that the average American is getting murdered in this economy. Housing prices are out of control. Wages are down. Fuel costs are a killer. Medical costs are through the roof. Food prices continue to climb. These are the staples of the average American's existence, and they are all going beyond the reach of most. The rich are getting richer, and the poor are getting screwed hard. The corporations are doing wonderful things, as they continue to ship jobs and the tax base to other countries. All that does is fatten their bottom line and raise their stock price (both false indicators of a healthy economy). This is a huge problem and one that needs to be addressed. It certainly isn't going to happen under the pro-big business Republicans.

Now if Bush and the boys aren't looking for a way out of the war and a scaled withdraw then the they are being controlled by the oil company and defense contractor conspiracy boys have got it right.

I don't think it is that simple. Oil is but one aspect of the desire to be in the region. Power and control are the primary incentives. Protecting the viability of the American dollar is another that is too often over-looked. The issue is very complex and cannot be put into black and white terms that most voters can easily grasp.

I would think if anything that from afar the Reps look like they actually believe something whether they actually do or not and state it in plain terms where it's kinda hard to tell what the Dem's believe and not because it's hard to understand but because it seems fabricated during the time leading up to an election.

That is the strength of the Republicans. For the most part, they appeal to a simple crowd. They play well in the states and districts where the "folks are hard working people" and have foundation in "American values". That's Republican-ese for "not so well educated". That's not saying the people are dumb, just that they don't know any better. They were raised in rural areas where religion, mom and apple pie was the foundation of their upbringing. Good people, just not really in touch with the issues and the big picture. That is why the Republicans simplify issues and run on issues that appeal to these people and their values. These aren't Republican values in any way, just the ones the party will appeal to win an election. This is why black and white and fear issues are so important to the Republicans and why they stay away from the complex issues that require some actual thinking and understanding. It is much easier to sway a voter when you appeal to his gut than when you appeal to his brain. Rovian politics at its finest.

I think the Democrats are miscast. They are not wussies. Hell, there are many decorated war heros in congress that are Democrats. I think what is wrong with the Democrats is that they are so disorganized. They have no cohesive approach to issues, which is the liberal mentality. You get 100 Democrats in a room and you'll get 100 different views on matters. They may all reach the same conclusion, but the way they get their message across is different and diverse. Democrats view their politics as a collective party IMO. They view the diversity as something you want in your "party" and that's what makes it great. Everyone can have a voice. The Republicans OTOH are all on very organized, on message and have the same vision. They are a political organization. Politics is their business. Everyone is on message or they shut up. If they don't want to shut up, they will be ousted in favor of someone who will play ball. That's why the Republicans are so much more efficient at the political game in America. They are not all that good for the country IMO, but they are the best at the game of political hackery that passes off as democracy in action.