Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community - View Single Post - Flames Future: Glass Half Full or Half Empty?

Calgary4LIfe · 11-23-2016, 05:08 PM

Reading this thread just makes me understand why Canadian teams in general are so unwilling to enter into a rebuild to begin with.

Criticism is fair. The team is not playing well, and there are a number of issues with this squad. However, you have to have a general sour outlook on life - or at least have little to no patience - if you can't see at least this as a glass half full.

So we don't have Connor McDiver. So what? Boo hoo. Sorry, but that doesn't guarantee a thing in the NHL in terms of being successful. 29 teams in this league will not have a Connor McDiver or a Sid the Kid in their lineup next season. Maybe some people should bet some good cash on next year's Stanley Cup final being an Edmonton vs Pittsburgh final then, right?

You don't need an absolute generational player to succeed. Crosby has 2 cups now since he entered the league. Malkin was a huge reason why they won the first one. Fleury was a huge reason why they won the first one too. So was their supporting cast. The cup this year was won on the backs of that team's depth as well.

As good as Toews and Kane are, Chicago wins nothing without having deep teams.

Calgary fans should know this well. There was no better player in this league in '04 when Jarome - along with Kipper - forced this team into the Stanley Cup final. They don't get there without Gelinas. Or Regehr. Or Simon. Or Conroy. Or Yelle. Or the rest of the team. They especially don't get there without Sutter coaching.

This team is the deepest team from the first line right through to the 4th line in Stockton that I have seen since the late 80's/early 90's. The cupboards are full of good prospects. The Flames' core - essentially the same Flames' core that made round 2 of the playoffs a couple years back - is young, and growing pains happen.

So Bennett is having what we can say is a sophomore slump - all players that go through it look lousy. I still like his upside, and I would still bet on it. I also like how he is tenacious, fast, and can score 4 goals in a game. Monahan is having a down year? Well, wasn't too long ago that people, perhaps the majority even, were saying Ovechkin is on the downturn, has been playing too physical, and is now almost washed-up with an ugly contract. Who says that now?

If you can't see that a core of Monahan, Bennett, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Brodie and Hamilton as a young core to move forward with is the envy of most teams in the league, then I don't know what to say. There isn't a single team in the NHL that wouldn't want these guys on their team. Backlund and Frolik added to that core is a heck of a top 9. Sure, there are a few gaps in the top 9 still, but you have capable guys like Brouwer who have showed the consistent ability on a number of high-end teams to help cement it.

You have possibilities still with guys like Jankowski, Klimchuk (who I may add, so many people just gave up on until this season), Poirier (who still has more upside than what people are giving credit for), Mangiapane, Shinkaruk and Pribyl.

You have rock-solid grinders in Hathaway and Ferland - and Ferland has shown the ability to get an entire team off their game in a playoff series, and was the talk of the entire NHL that playoffs, plus he has shown flashes of being more than just a grinder.

The NHL is all about puck-moving defencemen it seems, and look what Calgary has an abundance of. Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton, Kylington, Andersson, Hickey, Fox - a couple may not make it, but Kylington is well on his way, and barring a disastrous injury, he is going to be a top 4 D. Kulak is already on the team, and though he has a rough game here and there, most would say he is looking pretty good.

When was the last time in the history of this team that the Flames had this many bullets in the chamber for goalies? Gillies looks like the future here, but he is far from a lock. Why? Because he may end up getting pushed out by a guy like Parsons. MacDonald looks shaky, and looks phenomenal - no surprise with a goalie his age really, and there is still very good upside. Rittich is adjusting really, really well now and is showing why the Flames went to the Czech republic and signed this guy. Johnson is looking not just like a capable backup, but an actual decent (if unspectacular) starter who can be relied on. Then you have everyone's forgotten goalie - Schneider - who I really like because he never gives up just like Parsons.

We aren't reaching like we were in the young guns era where everyone had to live up to the made-up hype. We don't need to believe that Todd Simpson (who I really liked) is a future top-pairing D. We have 2 of those already in Giordano and Brodie. So they started off badly... where is OEL this year? Lidstrom looked like crap at times too. I will point at the larger body of work that Giordano and Brodie have done and say: "That is who they are", rather than think that they suck after 20 rough games. I will argue that Hamilton looked really good for most of last year too, and has looked dominating at times this year, though inconsistent.

Inconsistent.

That is what you get with a rebuilding squad. Add a new coach to the mix, with new systems. Add in new players. This is what you sometimes get. Not all the prospects I listed are going to make it, but the truth is that the Flames don't even need them all to make it either. Flames can make further signings down the road to plug a hole, make a big trade, etc.

The '02 Flames had little talent and little organizationally. Iginla, Regehr.. some other decent secondary pieces like Conroy, but not a whole lot of talent there. They had LITTLE organizationally, yet through a series of shrewd trades and signings, they built a team that went to the finals, and then went on to add a heck of a lot more talent as the years went on, until the 'core' was just too old. They were considered contenders by.. well.. basically everyone. Didn't guarantee that they would achieve any sort of success, but that is what those teams were up until 2010 or so. I would say that this team is starting off with a hell of a lot more. I think that is a pretty fair statement.

Teams have off-years. Chicago looks like crap half the time. Toews looks nowhere near like a 1st line center. I would bet he turns it around. Getzlaf looked and performed like crap last year to start off as well. Anybody worried about him? Those are high-end veteran players that many label as 'franchise-level'. Heck, some circles thought Getzlaf was becoming THE best center in the NHL for a while. Next season he takes a nosedive (along with the team) for about the first 30 games.

I think we can excuse a bunch of sophomores and 3rd year young players who just saw their coach being canned, and are trying to find their footing again under another coaching staff.

This isn't new to any team in the NHL. I guess the Penguins should have torn it down again and entered into another rebuild when it was painfully obvious they weren't positioned to win another cup, and couldn't do it with two players eating so much of the cap.

Lots can happen. The point is that if you can't look at the organizational depth of this franchise right now, and say that it isn't half-full at least, then you really need a break from hockey. There is a lot to like about this team, and the future it can provide down the road. There are no guarantees where it comes to winning the cup, but this team is very well positioned to become a contender with the core it has been putting in place down the road.

It isn't just half full.. it is 3/4 full, and this team just needs some seasoning - experience goes a LONG way in this league. They also need a good coaching staff. Maybe Gulutzan is, maybe he isn't. It doesn't matter THAT much anyways this year, as they are simply not ready yet. The team is deep organizationally, and is getting deeper every year now that they can draft and develop worth a damn. I like where this team is headed, present success notwithstanding.

11-23-2016, 05:08 PM	#71
Calgary4LIfe Franchise Player Join Date: Jun 2010 Exp:	Reading this thread just makes me understand why Canadian teams in general are so unwilling to enter into a rebuild to begin with. Criticism is fair. The team is not playing well, and there are a number of issues with this squad. However, you have to have a general sour outlook on life - or at least have little to no patience - if you can't see at least this as a glass half full. So we don't have Connor McDiver. So what? Boo hoo. Sorry, but that doesn't guarantee a thing in the NHL in terms of being successful. 29 teams in this league will not have a Connor McDiver or a Sid the Kid in their lineup next season. Maybe some people should bet some good cash on next year's Stanley Cup final being an Edmonton vs Pittsburgh final then, right? You don't need an absolute generational player to succeed. Crosby has 2 cups now since he entered the league. Malkin was a huge reason why they won the first one. Fleury was a huge reason why they won the first one too. So was their supporting cast. The cup this year was won on the backs of that team's depth as well. As good as Toews and Kane are, Chicago wins nothing without having deep teams. Calgary fans should know this well. There was no better player in this league in '04 when Jarome - along with Kipper - forced this team into the Stanley Cup final. They don't get there without Gelinas. Or Regehr. Or Simon. Or Conroy. Or Yelle. Or the rest of the team. They especially don't get there without Sutter coaching. This team is the deepest team from the first line right through to the 4th line in Stockton that I have seen since the late 80's/early 90's. The cupboards are full of good prospects. The Flames' core - essentially the same Flames' core that made round 2 of the playoffs a couple years back - is young, and growing pains happen. So Bennett is having what we can say is a sophomore slump - all players that go through it look lousy. I still like his upside, and I would still bet on it. I also like how he is tenacious, fast, and can score 4 goals in a game. Monahan is having a down year? Well, wasn't too long ago that people, perhaps the majority even, were saying Ovechkin is on the downturn, has been playing too physical, and is now almost washed-up with an ugly contract. Who says that now? If you can't see that a core of Monahan, Bennett, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Brodie and Hamilton as a young core to move forward with is the envy of most teams in the league, then I don't know what to say. There isn't a single team in the NHL that wouldn't want these guys on their team. Backlund and Frolik added to that core is a heck of a top 9. Sure, there are a few gaps in the top 9 still, but you have capable guys like Brouwer who have showed the consistent ability on a number of high-end teams to help cement it. You have possibilities still with guys like Jankowski, Klimchuk (who I may add, so many people just gave up on until this season), Poirier (who still has more upside than what people are giving credit for), Mangiapane, Shinkaruk and Pribyl. You have rock-solid grinders in Hathaway and Ferland - and Ferland has shown the ability to get an entire team off their game in a playoff series, and was the talk of the entire NHL that playoffs, plus he has shown flashes of being more than just a grinder. The NHL is all about puck-moving defencemen it seems, and look what Calgary has an abundance of. Brodie, Giordano, Hamilton, Kylington, Andersson, Hickey, Fox - a couple may not make it, but Kylington is well on his way, and barring a disastrous injury, he is going to be a top 4 D. Kulak is already on the team, and though he has a rough game here and there, most would say he is looking pretty good. When was the last time in the history of this team that the Flames had this many bullets in the chamber for goalies? Gillies looks like the future here, but he is far from a lock. Why? Because he may end up getting pushed out by a guy like Parsons. MacDonald looks shaky, and looks phenomenal - no surprise with a goalie his age really, and there is still very good upside. Rittich is adjusting really, really well now and is showing why the Flames went to the Czech republic and signed this guy. Johnson is looking not just like a capable backup, but an actual decent (if unspectacular) starter who can be relied on. Then you have everyone's forgotten goalie - Schneider - who I really like because he never gives up just like Parsons. We aren't reaching like we were in the young guns era where everyone had to live up to the made-up hype. We don't need to believe that Todd Simpson (who I really liked) is a future top-pairing D. We have 2 of those already in Giordano and Brodie. So they started off badly... where is OEL this year? Lidstrom looked like crap at times too. I will point at the larger body of work that Giordano and Brodie have done and say: "That is who they are", rather than think that they suck after 20 rough games. I will argue that Hamilton looked really good for most of last year too, and has looked dominating at times this year, though inconsistent. Inconsistent. That is what you get with a rebuilding squad. Add a new coach to the mix, with new systems. Add in new players. This is what you sometimes get. Not all the prospects I listed are going to make it, but the truth is that the Flames don't even need them all to make it either. Flames can make further signings down the road to plug a hole, make a big trade, etc. The '02 Flames had little talent and little organizationally. Iginla, Regehr.. some other decent secondary pieces like Conroy, but not a whole lot of talent there. They had LITTLE organizationally, yet through a series of shrewd trades and signings, they built a team that went to the finals, and then went on to add a heck of a lot more talent as the years went on, until the 'core' was just too old. They were considered contenders by.. well.. basically everyone. Didn't guarantee that they would achieve any sort of success, but that is what those teams were up until 2010 or so. I would say that this team is starting off with a hell of a lot more. I think that is a pretty fair statement. Teams have off-years. Chicago looks like crap half the time. Toews looks nowhere near like a 1st line center. I would bet he turns it around. Getzlaf looked and performed like crap last year to start off as well. Anybody worried about him? Those are high-end veteran players that many label as 'franchise-level'. Heck, some circles thought Getzlaf was becoming THE best center in the NHL for a while. Next season he takes a nosedive (along with the team) for about the first 30 games. I think we can excuse a bunch of sophomores and 3rd year young players who just saw their coach being canned, and are trying to find their footing again under another coaching staff. This isn't new to any team in the NHL. I guess the Penguins should have torn it down again and entered into another rebuild when it was painfully obvious they weren't positioned to win another cup, and couldn't do it with two players eating so much of the cap. Lots can happen. The point is that if you can't look at the organizational depth of this franchise right now, and say that it isn't half-full at least, then you really need a break from hockey. There is a lot to like about this team, and the future it can provide down the road. There are no guarantees where it comes to winning the cup, but this team is very well positioned to become a contender with the core it has been putting in place down the road. It isn't just half full.. it is 3/4 full, and this team just needs some seasoning - experience goes a LONG way in this league. They also need a good coaching staff. Maybe Gulutzan is, maybe he isn't. It doesn't matter THAT much anyways this year, as they are simply not ready yet. The team is deep organizationally, and is getting deeper every year now that they can draft and develop worth a damn. I like where this team is headed, present success notwithstanding.