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Originally Posted by PepsiFree
Uh, compare the division between men/women, black/white, and gay/straight now to 100 years ago.
They've come significantly closer. I don't know if the people accusing IP as causing the division understand just how FAR apart things were before they became relevant.
Discrimination and IP aren't the same, I think you'd be served well researching more about IP. Here's a bit from Wikipedia to get you going:
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True, they aren't the same thing. IP legitimizes discrimination.
I think you'd be well served by researching more about discrimination. Here's a link to the dictionary to get you going:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/discrimination
These improvements were not made on the basis of IP by race, gender, etc. They were made with appeals to fairness, equality, etc; namely liberal principles widely held in society. This is a form of IP, but not of the form of which you speak.
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Tell me how that's the same as discrimination to you. Tell me how it's not simply the response to racism, sexism, homophobia, and other forms of hate that have led to political oppression. Identity politics requires discrimination? That is completely false, and frankly kind of funny for anyone to actually believe.
If I believe the right to gay marriage is important, please explain how I'm discriminating against someone else. Anyone.
Getting rid of IP is not getting rid of discrimination. That's like saying you're going to stop taking Tylenol to make your headaches go away.
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It is a form of discrimination by definition (not just to me). Positive discrimination is still discrimination that is negative for someone else. The effects may not be proportional on the two groups, but the strength of the effect has nothing to do with if something is discriminatory. Indeed, those discriminated against may not even notice, but it is still discrimination.
Not all discrimination is bad either. Discriminating against the KKK is fine by me. However, discriminating against the KKK because they are KKK is not fine with me; rather I'm fine with discriminating against them (for example, providing more security in neighborhoods nearby common locations of KKK meetings) because they oppose classic liberal principles, including those above. The KKK is using Identity Politics to discriminate against all those who are not white. Identity politics is more than just a part of left wing thought. The term for it is relatively new, but it's been around far longer than the term.
And your right, getting rid of it won't get rid of discrimination. That's never been the argument. You still need to fight discrimination, but doing so on the principles of fairness and individual liberty has and will probably continue to make far greater strides in reducing discrimination than IP.
IP, especially religious IP, has been used to promote racism, sexism, etc far longer than it's been used to oppose it.
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I don't think eliminating all IP should be the goal. I don't think that would be possible. Everyone wants to belong to a group. I just think the identities we use to belong to these groups around should be based on shared principles and shared experiences rather than irrelevant physical traits.