[CaptainCrunch]

[QUOTE=iggy_oi;5988928]Those people's jobs and livelihood were at stake before the NDP even got into office, having our entire economy supported by an industry that lives and dies by a commodities world market price which is set by people we have zero influence over was always playing with fire.[quote]

You know that's how modern economics works, for all of the talk of diversification, every region will always have a primary industry that they depend on. You could argue that Ontario that relies heavily on manufacturing is in serious trouble as nations like China and India keep their pay down to undercut in the major manufacturing center.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

People were leaving before the minimum wage or carbon tax were even on the table. This is a fact.

Please prove this because up until the threat of carbon tax, minimum wage increase, the increase in business tax rates, property taxes and personal taxes, has caused a shrink on stagnation of Calgary's population from the ages of 20 to 30 according to the Calgary Economic Development corporation, the growth for 30 year olds to 50 year olds is not significant at all.According to their population growth estimates, that shrinkage of prime working age people will continue to shrink until 2020.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

We are currently suffering from the backlash of having a ridiculously unregulated economic structure for decades. The unemployed aren't the ones who are going to get the economy going again, the employed are by growing business with their consumer dollars.

And in an economic downturn like this where there is significant uncertainty and lack of trust in the government policies in creating a positive econmy they're more then likely going to sit on their wallets and not spend foolishly.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

What has gotten cheaper in the last few years? Rent, eating out, tradeswork, hotels, even the stampede was letting people in for free. Not sure why you needed me to cite examples on that unless you don't live here.

Where are you seeing rent shrinking, and do you really think that as property rates have increased and a carbon tax has come in that landlords are going to cut their rent? Not likely. The only benefit of this idiotic government is that the rent bubble has burst as people have stopped coming here to work so rents have temporarily stagnated, but again as utilities increase rents will increase. I Hotel rates decreasing goes towards the fact that people aren't coming here, that's not a positive thing. Eating out, I haven't seen costs come down, and again when the carbon tax comes into play and effects logistics, and utilities and you add in the bump in minimum wage to hospitality workers those costs are going to go up.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

As for how these changes can possibly produce positive net results:
My view is that many here may likely be right in the short term, smaller businesses that rely on a cheap labour cost will probably struggle, some jobs could be lost, if that did happen hypothetically it would be logical to assume things like rent would go down in price since the demand would be down. Unless people decide to stop wanting to try and make money, new businesses would come in to replace those that folded, and if those businesses are better able to thrive in this new environment their employees will have more spending money to contribute to growing the economy. There appears to be an irrational fear among many that if one business can't survive in a $15 minimum wage and carbon tax economy no other business will figure out a way to do it.

If you have businesses in the spectrum that go under of collapse, new companies aren't going to flood in to take their place, that makes no sense whatsoever, that sector will shrink because of the uncertainty of the business environment. Nobody goes into business out of the goodness of their hearts, they come in to be successful. So if the small restaurant sector shows a lot of failure there won't be new restaurants jumping into the breech to open. Go look at downtown Calgary and there aren't a lot of new ones popping in to replace the failed ones.

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Bonus thing that could help:
Maybe those who are better off than most right now try to reduce the impact of the carbon tax by making energy efficient changes to their home or car, which would also help the economy in the short term, while saving them money in the long term. Any of the carbon tax's other possible benefit will be defined by what they actually do with the money from it.

That's nice, but as its pointed out, car sales are down, people aren't going to spend 15,000 for a new furnace and upgrade their houses to save $20.00 a month, that makes no sense whatsoever. Even talking to guys in furnace, hvac, home reno's people aren't spending money right now, they're going to sit on their cash in case the bottom falls out on this economy completely.