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Originally Posted by sworkhard
I never said it's the only two options, only that I'd rather that former than the latter. Certainly, 100% would be better, but IMO, the I expect that the Putin's and Erdoğan's of the world will always manage to find a place to rule, though I wish this wasn't the case. Further, people make mistakes and sometimes these lead to hardship. Look at Greece for example. Until people stop making mistakes, hard time will continue to exist in parts of the world, and sometimes people will elect dictators that do a lot of harm. This is why I think that achieving 100% free and open societies is highly unlikely. A noble goal no doubt, I just don't think it's achievable. As for equality, I think gender and racial equality are things to strive for. I don't think equality is good in many other parts of life. Much of my life is good because I have hopes and dreams that I strive to achieve, and these would not exist if everything was equal in life.
Finally, if your bothered to read my post, you'd know I talked about how I'm helping people outside my own back yard. What are you doing to help?
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First off I think you took my post the wrong way and got on the defensive - I did read your whole post and I'm sorry I didnt acknowledge the fact you do help people outside of your own back yard. I think thats good. In much of that post I'm not addressing you but discussing people who have in the past told me the same thing, maybe I didnt make it clear enough that parts of my post were directed at people who have said the same thing before.
Putin and Erdogan are completely different beasts but that is a huge discussion we can save for another thread.
I think its a misconception that these nations have all simply made mistakes that have lead to their hardships. Its not the case in many parts of the world that are in no way comparable to Greece.
To answer your question I do a lot for people specifically in the middle East and Africa but we can start a thread on poster humanitarianism to delve into that. Its not really a bragging point for me but in the right discussion I would be comfortable talking about some of the projects ive been apart of in the developing world.
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I don't think equality is good in many other parts of life. Much of my life is good because I have hopes and dreams that I strive to achieve, and these would not exist if everything was equal in life.
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I was pretty surprised to read this to be honest. You think that equality outside of race and gender equality is a threat to your hopes and dreams?
Much of your life is good because you strive to achieve things? So those in Africa live in poverty because they don't strive and those around the world living in corruption are not hoping enough?
What are your hopes and dreams, to start an oil company in the Middle East or a copper mining company in Africa? (sarcasm)
I agree with most of what you said but I'm baffled by the bit I quoted above. Its basically the typical attitude I've observed in westerners when they discuss poverty or financial inequality on a global scale or even in their home countries when speaking about the lower-class. "they are lazy, I work hard for what I have and they've made mistakes and deserve what they are getting until they can learn how to be hard working and civilized like we are"
Pretty ugly to me and many others but I dont think you are some kind of bigot or monster for thinking that way. I think it is a misconception of the western world and a pride thing as well - we want to think we deserve everything we have because we are smart and 'work hard'. Wishful thinking at best and willful ignorance at worst. It is actually a historically capitalist rhetoric that economic/financial equality on a global or even societal scale is a threat to the wealth of the middle - upper class.
I think that is somewhat of a dangerous belief because not only does it cause people to ignore the HUGE economic gap in western nations it also causes people to ignore the astronomical economic divide between the 1st world and developing world - since it is deemed a threat to their 'way/standard of life'. It fuels the exploitation and western imposed set-backs on the development of these nations we deem a financial or strategic 'threat' to the global financial hegemony; just as lower-middle class members of western society are seen as a financial threat to the middle-upper class members of society. Its a microcosm of the global economic divide. People fearfully believing that prosperity for the impoverished means poverty for the prosperous. Fear is a strong thing - especially when coupled with pride and wanting to provide the very best you can for your own family even at the expense of other families.
The issue I have with that line of thinking is it blames historically oppressed people for their oppression as if the prosperity of the west wasnt largely built on free 3rd world resources, slaves, colonialism, war, etc. I think its only normal for people to want to think they deserve what they have because the alternative could mean they benefited from the fact they were born in a peaceful, prosperous country to good parents etc. As opposed to born in a warring ****hole of a country as an orphan.
Anyway thanks for the chat, its definitely interesting stuff..