Quote:
Originally Posted by sworkhard
Well, to start, I don't actually feel I'm less able to criticize Islam that Christianity, but that's because of the circles I run in and I rarely do so in a public forum.
I just think that when I do, the criticism I face from liberals for criticizing how women and children in many Muslim communities (including in the west) should be consistent with their response to my criticism of many fundamentalists Christian communities treatment of women and children.
However, I observe that there is a group of people so concerned about how the majority of Muslims are treated (forgetting about the minorities within the Muslim communities) in their western communities that they forget that criticism of the religion is healthy both for Islam and the Muslims that adhere to it, so long as there is an opportunity for the defenders of the faith to do so as well. This is the group the cries Islamophobia when a person makes a comment about some tenant that appears to be held by a large portion of Muslims, but applaud when you do the same with Christianity.
Should such criticism, debate, and defense become more visible and common, I think that not only will those that practice Islam slowly adjust the practice of their religion in ways that benefit the minorities within them as become more integrated in western society, but that Islam will be considered less of a threat, and therefore Muslims will be treated more like proper members of western society too.
As for the rest of your post, I don't see anything to disagree with. It matches my understanding of the current situation for moderate muslims in the middle east quite well. I too wish there were more Maajid Nawaz types. Since there aren't, we can at least try convince the liberal media to give them a voice more often.
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Do you think it is possible that people are as you say less open to criticism about Islam because they feel it could be a danger in the sense it can, depending on how it is done, serve as fantastic propaganda for terrorists to turn around and use and say look - people in the west cant stand you. So in a sense maybe the regressive leftists whoever they are - perhaps agree with the criticism of the religion but feel like it may be inflammatory depending on how it is done.
I think as a society we have forced Christians to swallow their pride and kind of realize they arent getting around some things like for example teaching evolution in schools or same sex marriage. Whereas Muslims generally speaking still feel that a criticism of their religion is an attack on their religion. I think it comes from pride or ego. If I could use a term for horses without people taking it the wrong way - I think Christians have by and large been broken to secular life where as Muslims are still mustangs in that sense. They've never had - in their own societies - any tolerance for moderate secularists never mind 'heretics' who denounce religious ideologies wholesale. I think while people get upset at those who say that Islam and Muslim nations are in the dark ages - it is a surprisingly good analogy although it may bruise some egos. In the dark ages you couldn't challenge religion. In the dark ages nothing was secular and everything was very directly influenced by religion. I think extremists within Islamic societies are a by product of the lack of secularism. If these people werent so religious I believe they would still be angry but had they a population of moderate secularists they wouldn't necessarily use Islam to justify or motivate their resistance to neo-colonialism but they would do it through some political medium like socialism or nationalism etc. But since Islam in many Muslim societies is deeply involved in everything from banking to entertainment to fashion to law - it means people view things though a religious scope. Us vs them, believers vs disbelievers.
In more secular nations people see it in different terms which dont push people to be as fundamentalist or dangerous. Terms like colonialism, west, communism, proxy, foreign influence. But currently the only terms they have to express their view that an injustice is being commited against them are terms like infidel, kafir, jew etc.
I think there are 4 very powerful factors influencing things. Foreign influence > religion that lends its self to self-sacrifice and violent resistance when people are occupied / threatened > The fact that Islamic societies are hardly ever secular to begin with nevermind when the people feel like the whole world is against them > Large amounts increasingly radicalized people, turning to increasingly radicalized preachers and looking in their quran and basically looking to manufacture a religious context for what is happening politically.