[Itse]

Originally Posted by Thor

For discussing why so many on the left "Regressives" are so unwilling or afraid to criticize or condemn Islam, Islamism, political Islam or whatever you want to define that as.

Well there you go again. You are starting with the presumption that those are somehow the same thing, when a major point of the opposing argument is that they're not.

There's no debating when you want to insert these kinds of (frankly ridiculous) presumptions into the discussion.

You live in Finland, surely you know whats going on in Sweden. Just recently Norway introduced classes for Muslim refugees to discuss the importance of equality for women, LGBT, and other values that they did not have in their own countries.

Yes, we also have these in Finland, and there's something similar in quite many countries.

I fail to see how examples of liberal values turned into concrete policies back up your point. Unless you're against those classes?

Sad you see it as a bonkers claim, but at any point if I switched out comments against Islamic ideals, beliefs with the word Christian, I would receive very little opposition.

I am not following your train of thought.

Are you suggesting that liberals are also "failing to deal" with Christians?

Again, what exactly do you mean by "failing to deal"?

Islam is treated with kid gloves by the western liberals, where we on universities Feminist groups teaming up with a Muslim group to protest an Atheist from speaking at their university. The new generation of "liberals" with their safe spaces, attempts to shut down speech they don't like, the immediate attacks of bigot, racist, if you don't fully agree. The craziness of the feminist movement, SJWs..

This is so remotely connected to Islam, let alone Islamic terrorism that I'm really struggling to see your point.

I do however see the really weird idea that there is some kind of a monolithic group called "western liberals" that you are opposed to. And apparently you're also against feminists?

But I'm most interested in why so many of my fellow Liberals are so afraid of discussing Islam, talking about the obvious clash of civilizations and beliefs that don't work.

I have some really simple answers for this.

1) Liberals are not "afraid to discuss Islam". In fact, they talk about it all the bloody time. Some have literally dedicated their whole lives to studying it and talking about it. The reason they're not saying what you want them to say is not that they're afraid. It's that they don't agree with you.

Yes, I know it's nice to think that you're being "brave" when you're talking about something, but when literally just about everyone has been talking about Islam for years now in every possible media, I really fail to see how you can still hold on to the idea that for some reason someone is "afraid" to do so?

2) Liberals don't talk about the clash of civilizations because it's not a real thing. This is not a failure on their part. It's a failure in your part. You've bought into extreme far-right nonsense. This is literally Breivik stuff.

3) I hear Liberals talking about beliefs that don't work all the time. Again, just because they're not talking about the beliefs that you want to talk about is not because they don't want to talk about them. They just don't agree with you. It's not a failure on their part.

The UK, Sweden are such great case studies for us, with the problems of Islamic schools, The sharia family courts, the segregation, the rape problems in Sweden.

I fail to see how UK is a great case study. It's a country where first hundreds of thousands and now millions of Muslims have been living alongside millions of Christians (and other religions) with very little religious violence on either side for decades now, a country with consistently a really high standard of living and the vast majority of people living peacefully and abiding with the law.

The rape situation in Sweden is of course unfortunate, but again I fail to see how this is somehow an example of "failure of liberals to deal with it", as the recent growth happened at the tail end of eight years of right wing rule.

Sweden has btw always had statistically a high number of rapes, which is generally considered to be a result of unusually high rate of reporting rapes that have happened (a result of feminism) and an unusual way of counting the number of rapes. (For example if a person reports that he has been raped by their spouse for years, in most countries this is counted as 1 rape case. In Sweden they make an estimate of the total number of times that rape happened, which means that single incident like this can easily count as hundreds of rapes statistically.)