Quote:
Originally Posted by peter12
The teleology (I am doubling down on fancy words) of Western liberalism is atomization and individualization. This is all well and good if you have the luck or the will to exist within or create a social environment that allows your individual skills to thrive.
I've mentioned Charles Murray's Coming Apart as a good first step into understanding why certain communities are thriving, and others are rapidly failing. Incidentally, more successful communities are strongly Christian or at least attend a church regularly.
Islam, with its mythos of dominance, war, and eschatological finality, enters into the personal void like nothing else.
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Really?
At least as of 2010, non-hispanic blacks had the highest instance of regular church attendance in the US. I wouldn't say that community is thriving.
Economic stability, strong education and upward mobility has far more to do with successful society than does religiousness. Nordic countries are increasingly secular and are increasingly successful societies with little crime and high quality of life. People don't want to hurt others or commit crime because what's the point? What do they have to gain in a society where they're treated well overall? And when they do commit crime, jail is meant to rehabilitate them and turn them back into useful members of society, not just to repeat the same crimes and end up in jail all over again.
It's not about religiousness, it's about morality.
True Christianity, that actually reflects the beliefs of Christ (treating others as you want to be treated, taking care of the less fortunate, etc) is good for this. But the bastardization of Christianity in the US that has made it hateful and oppressive and exclusionary is far from helpful.
People can be moral without being religious.
Also this whole "breakdown of marriage" is inane to me. Women nowadays don't have their success tied to being one half of a marriage, and thus often they choose not to tie themselves down. My parents both had a father present in their lives, but one of them was a PTSD riddled alcoholic and the other was an alcoholic, drug addicted pedophile. Just because fathers were present in those days doesn't mean they were always
good fathers. It just meant that their wives had no option but to stick it out if they wanted to keep their kids.