[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

It's unfortunate that you feel that way. It seems that you view them as adversaries rather than fellow human beings with a different perspective.

I view Muslims as human beings with a "different perspective", if by that you mean belief system that has no basis in reality and demands much from its followers that is counterproductive, and in some applications depending on the interpretation and what prescriptions in the doctrine are deemed important by those applying it, downright horrifying, violent, oppressive and barbaric.

Listen, you have to understand that we all need something to make order out of the chaos of the universe. Very few people are comfortable just knowing that it's pure chaos and that most of what we do doesn't matter. But that existentialism is a rather new concept for the developed world, never mind the developing world, so patience is necessary in this regard, and change will come slowly. We are given a paradigm by our parents and community, and that's what helps us make sense of the world. Without that, we have to rely on an unknown reality, where we have to constantly shape our perspective as events and ideas challenge us. This is ideal, but most people are just trying to get through the day, and don't have the time, nor wherewithal, to go through that process. It's a shame, but it's reality, so they often revert to what they know to get them through life. Sometimes they change their mind, but it's usually on individual issues, not major overarching ideologies.

This is an awful argument that essentially boils down to, "the world is hard, not everyone can liberate their own minds from the shackles of superstition foisted on them by their communities, so rather than confronting those bad ideas just let them be with their ignorance". That's not only patronizing and condescending, because secularists in religious communities should be celebrated, supported and encouraged, but it's incredibly illiberal.

I think all I'm trying to say is that none of us have the monopoly on absolute truth, so being tolerant and having a discourse is valuable to maybe come to a new idea. You have thesis, and then you have the counter to it, the antithesis. Somewhere in between you have synthesis, and therein probably lies the truth.

Somewhere between "my thesis", which is that no one has ever suffered as a result of a society applying an excess of logic and rational thought, and the notion of flying horses and resurrections, is not "the truth". That is superstitious nonsense and should be open to criticism just as much as flat earthers, holocaust deniers, moon landing conspiracists or any other form of delusion.

Now, look. In spite of what I've said in this post, I'm not one to aggressively go after people who hold religious beliefs and tell them they're morons or try to convert them. But to suggest that there's something different or special about religious belief, as opposed to any other kind, simply because of how long it's been around and how entrenched it's become as a result, is backwards, anti-intellectual crap cozying up to the worst of right-wing religious demagogues. By putting these utterly ordinary beliefs in some mystical, revered category, they oppress dissidents, women, and unbelievers.

The deepest-held of beliefs, the ones that matter most to us, are just as subject to challenge as any other - in fact, if the beliefs are that important, it's more important to challenge them because it's more important that we're sure those beliefs are right. It's more important that we challenge them to understand why they're right and why we think they're important in the first place.

Religious beliefs consistently wilt under that pressure, and the theocrats who have always tried to prevent people from challenging dogma and asking these crucial questions have throughout our history as a species been arguably the greatest barrier to human progress.

That is why what you're arguing flies in the face of what I believe. That's why I think your perspective is bad for the human race, and why I think it absolutely must be rejected.