Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ1532
I'll be honest, this is a really well thought out post and I find it hard to disagree with your reasoning. However, there is one point that I do take issue with and its the bolded bit. This notion that he feeds off his line mates is a myth.
In his rookie season, he put up 17 goals without the help of Hudler. Only 5 of his goals did come with an assist for Hudler. So I'm sorry, the numbers simply don't support the idea that he fed off Hudler that year. It simply isn't true.
Ok, but what about his 2nd season, when he had Gaudreau AND Hudler to help him out? In the 14-15 season, he put up:
Goals/Assists WITHOUT Hudler and/or Gaudreau:
7 primary
5 secondary
15 goals
Goals/Assists WITH Hudler and/or Gaudreau:
12 primary assists
7 secondary
16 goals
So, of 31 goals he scored, just over half were via the assistance of either Gaudreau or Hudler. So, roughly 25% of his production in that season was arguably him just being in the right spot, waiting for a pass or move from Gaudreau/Hudler and then him scoring. And of the 35 points he put up with those 2 on his wings, he assisted them 17 times and they assisted him 16 times. So he actually assisted them more than they assisted him.
Thats not even to mention the fact that 27 of his 62 points(not far off half) were either scored with no help from those 2 or he assisted other guys on the team.
So, 75% of his production from the 14-15 season was either him assisting those 2 in some way, or it was him scoring/assisting without them helping. I simply don't see this notion that he feeds off his line mates, especially not those 2. I do agree that Monahan isn't an offensive driver. But he also isn't someone that relies on great team mates to score.
What about last season?
Goals/Assists WITHOUT Hudler and/or Gaudreau:
6 primary assists
1 secondary
9 goals
Goals/Assists WITH Hudler and/or Gaudreau:
19 primary assists
10 secondary
18 goals
Ok, 2/3rd of his goals came via either Gaudreau or Hudler. So he relied on them for a good portion of his goals. 47 of his 63 points also came with help from either Gaudreau or Hudler, or both. However, of those 47 points, 29 were assists. So on 29 occasions, he assisted those 2 to help the team score and 18 times, they assisted him. So the stats to me suggest that he helps them score more than they help him score.
Or maybe, the conclusion you draw from this is that they all helped each other out in the mixed time they've played together. I'm sorry, but this idea that Monahan needs them to score just doesn't stack up. Its an unfair slight on him.
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Good post. I really like it. Glad you brought some stats.
However its a straw man. Who said Monahan needs them to score? I never said Monahan needs Gaudreau or Hudler to score. I said I think his offensive numbers as a teenager were inflated due to his linemates and the role he played on our team. Also that he wouldnt have made 20 other NHL teams, nevertheless cracked their top 6. Thus making people project him to be some guy who will score 10 more goals every season, reaching 50 or something. I simply think hes reached his statistical apex. I think Monahan will get better as a player. But he isnt an offensive 1st line C. Hes an all round, does everything good kind of player. Usually those are on the second line. I see him as a consistent 30 something goal scorer, who wins faceoffs and plays north south. Not someone whos going to eventually be the career trigger man on gaudreau's line and pot 50 goals like some have posted. But thats my OPINION. I'm not stating it as a fact. My posts are riddle with "i think" "the way i see it" "in my opinion", not "im 100% sure" or "this is whats going to happen".
Nobody is stupid enough to make the argument that a player needs their linemates to score. The linemates also need him to score.. Not to mention he's the center on the line and a lot of plays happen solely because of him winning a faceoff or relieving pressure with a good breakout pass. So please dont distort what I said...into "monahan wouldnt score any goals if it werent for hudler and gaudreau". Thats stupid and its not what my point was. My point is simple. Its not a slight. It has been pointed out many times and im sure the flames are making the same point to Monahan in negotiations right now. Do you generate the offense on this line. Are you the go to guy, the primary scorer. Are your numbers in your first seasons not in any way inflated from playing with 2 playmaking wizards and coming into a team with no PP forwards and no top 6 centers.
You are taking me saying his numbers were inflated on this line, and he benefited from playing with those 2, and turning it into "he needs them to score/he feeds off them". Go watch AC's highlights of Monahan. Heck go watch Gaudreau's highlights and see how many times gaudreau undresses 3 people, dekes out the camera-man and puts it on Monahans stick. If thats not a player benefiting from playing with what may be the best playmaker in the NHL - what is it?
That doesnt mean he cant go and score a goal while playing with Frolik and Ferland or some other 2 players. I'm sure he would score plenty without John. That doesnt change the fact many of his goals were tap-ins from 5 feet out off a wicked tape to tape feed. Dont believe me? Watch his highlights from the 67s, to rookie season to sophmore. Its not a knock. However it doesnt show elite 1st line offensive skill to score those goals. Just because I'm pointing that out doesnt mean I'm saying Monahan would be in the ECHL without Gaudreau..
I also pointed out I see Monahan scoring 30+ for over a decade as our 1B or 2nd line C, without Gaudreau. So how does that equate to me saying he cant score without Gaudreau..
He can score. Peroid. I called his shot an elite NHL shot. Relax people. You are counter arguing something nobody is saying.
I just dont think he will be our 1st line center and that his game moving forward will be more suited to a 2nd line or 1B center, if 1B makes people less angry haha. 2nd line center sounds like an insult to some people on here. Malkin is a 2nd line center..
I guess this is what happens when a fanbase is starved for an top end young player, nobody can say anything critical of their game.
Fine..He's the next toews, and he doesnt benefit at all from playing with one of the best, most talented and creative playmakers I've ever seen in the NHL (JG). His skating is FANTASTIC, he is the one creating most of the offense on his line, he has datsyukian hands and hes super super physical.
Are you happy now?
How ridiculous that one cant say something about one of their favorite players without people labeling it as me trying to knock the guy, or having a go at him / slighting his ability.