[JJ1532]

Originally Posted by Crumpy-Gunt

That was me...

And it was absolutely hilarious. Pat went on a rant and raged on air. He later apologized to me and a few other callers as he was super pissy that night. Someone called in comparing him to toews. I disagreed. Lol. Monahan is no toews. Ive seen the comparison on here as well. Yes he is overrated by some of our fan base but i feel he actualky is underrated on the whole by the media. If he did all this in Toronto they would be screaming savior and hed have more press.

I own a Monahan jersey and have met him twice. Hes one of my favorite flames ever. I got butterflies everytime he was on the ice during his rookie season and literally watched every goal he scored and every game he played just waiting for 23 to come on the ice that season. He was 18 turned 19 during the season and scored 22 goals iirc breaking a franchise record for rookie scoring. I almost cried tears of joy. I dont think any true flames fan can say they dont like Sean. He also does awesome things like facetime kids with cancer so i cant see how you couldnt like him.

Ive posted numerous times saying we should lock up Monahan long term and he could be a future captain if he adds a bit more physicality and mean streak.

The point isnt that monahan is a bad player or person or anything you are making it out to be. He is one of the best young players in the NHL. His numbers at his position speak for themselves.

The point i made to Steinberg who ive also met and is a great guy is that Monahan wont be our 1st line center when we are contenders and that eventually he makes a lot more sense on the second line

What the hell is wrong with comparing Monahan to langkow... Look up his career stats. Not to mention he was a good faceoff player nice 2 way game, big but not super physical, with a lethal shot who went to rhe net to score most of his goals. Not the best skater but good with the puck and scored a lot. Sounds like Monahan.

Its not meant as a slight or insult at all. Im not the first to say it.

I simply called in after a fantastic Bennet game to say i think sam will be our future 1st line center and monahan will be one of the best 2nd line centers in the league and pat blew up.

Monahan is a great player. He also fed a lot off hudler in his rookie season and both hudler and gaudreau in the season after that. I dont think he is the offensive generator but rather a fantastic young 2 way center with an elite release and good positioning. He is smart. He drives the net on a line that had hudler in his rookie season and then does the same inbetween johnny and jiri the next season. You cant blame him for scoring so much as a kid. But go look back at his highlights in Ottawa in junior. Look at his rookie highights by the wonderful AC. Also his sophmore highlights. Hes a fantastic player reading the game. Stick on the ice. Driving rhe net. Always ready to recieve a pass and release it right away. Thats how he scores nornally. I do think his numbers are a bit inflated for his offensive ability due to the wizard called johnny and the mage called hudler. You will see in the highlights how many incredible plays those two had and basicalky banked the puck off Monahans stick and in. Its a great skill of his to be in position and score. But its not something that you can point to and say look.. Check his goal stats. Hes a number 1 center.

Those are all complements.

My point is hes a 2nd line center on a contender. He doesnt drice the line. Hes the faceoff winnibg 2 way center who plays the hard minutes. Imo bennet will be our 1st line center of the future.

Bennett creates on his own and is a more dynamic player with his hands skating and offensive creativity. I feel he suits a 1st line scoring center to play with johnny more.

Does that mean Monahan is bad? No hes one of the best at what he does.. Hes negotiating to earn somethibg like 7m per year.. And he deserves every penny i hope he retires a flame and hes remembered as one of our best players ever.

I just think he has benefited a lot from the situations hes been put in and is probably the best developed flames prospect ever. Hudler helped him a lot on and off the ice. Bob was incredible for him in easing him in to the league with offensive starts and poor opponents with a good d pairing behind him. We did a fantastic job putting him in a position to learn and succeed and he did more than you coukd ever ask. But he did come into an easy top 6 to crack. Our team had raymond colborne and setoguchi in the top 6 iirc and a line of goons as well haha. Only backlund as a top center. On about 20 other nhl teams sean woukd have been sent back to junior because he would have been their 3rd best center or worse as a rookie comming out of camp and they woukdnt want to develop him in a bottom 6 role. On the flames he was literally our 2nd best center and he stuck around scoring more goals than his age. Thats great for him. Its something to keep in mind though.

That doesnt change the fact that his skating, lack of physicality, individual offensive creativity and the type of game he plays makes me think he will be a fantastic number 2 center in the mould of a langkow and score 30 plus consistently in his career for over a decade.

In what world is that an insult or do i somehow have it out for one of the best flames picks EVER. Just because i think this team needs bennett to be our first line center and monahan our second line center if we will be a contender. Look at bennets junior highlights and compare it to monahans. Look at 18 year old sam bennet eating the canucks. Look at his 4 goal game in his rookie season. Is it ludicrous to say i think he has a higher offensive upside and ceiling and could potentially knock monahan down to 2c.. Making us a contender. Who is Pittsburgh's 2nd line center?

I dont think its that insulting to sean. Maybe its a compliment to sam.

Anyways back to draft talk..

I'll be honest, this is a really well thought out post and I find it hard to disagree with your reasoning. However, there is one point that I do take issue with and its the bolded bit. This notion that he feeds off his line mates is a myth.

In his rookie season, he put up 17 goals without the help of Hudler. Only 5 of his goals did come with an assist for Hudler. So I'm sorry, the numbers simply don't support the idea that he fed off Hudler that year. It simply isn't true.

Ok, but what about his 2nd season, when he had Gaudreau AND Hudler to help him out? In the 14-15 season, he put up:

Goals/Assists WITHOUT Hudler and/or Gaudreau:
7 primary
5 secondary
15 goals

Goals/Assists WITH Hudler and/or Gaudreau:
12 primary assists
7 secondary
16 goals

So, of 31 goals he scored, just over half were via the assistance of either Gaudreau or Hudler. So, roughly 25% of his production in that season was arguably him just being in the right spot, waiting for a pass or move from Gaudreau/Hudler and then him scoring. And of the 35 points he put up with those 2 on his wings, he assisted them 17 times and they assisted him 16 times. So he actually assisted them more than they assisted him.

Thats not even to mention the fact that 27 of his 62 points(not far off half) were either scored with no help from those 2 or he assisted other guys on the team.

So, 75% of his production from the 14-15 season was either him assisting those 2 in some way, or it was him scoring/assisting without them helping. I simply don't see this notion that he feeds off his line mates, especially not those 2. I do agree that Monahan isn't an offensive driver. But he also isn't someone that relies on great team mates to score.

What about last season?

Goals/Assists WITHOUT Hudler and/or Gaudreau:
6 primary assists
1 secondary
9 goals

Goals/Assists WITH Hudler and/or Gaudreau:
19 primary assists
10 secondary
18 goals

Ok, 2/3rd of his goals came via either Gaudreau or Hudler. So he relied on them for a good portion of his goals. 47 of his 63 points also came with help from either Gaudreau or Hudler, or both. However, of those 47 points, 29 were assists. So on 29 occasions, he assisted those 2 to help the team score and 18 times, they assisted him. So the stats to me suggest that he helps them score more than they help him score.

Or maybe, the conclusion you draw from this is that they all helped each other out in the mixed time they've played together. I'm sorry, but this idea that Monahan needs them to score just doesn't stack up. Its an unfair slight on him.