[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by New Era

@ Button comparisons

Nylander reminds me of Alex Semin. Lots of skill, but not around when the play matters. I'd stay away from him. He'll probably have a couple of big years, but won't see a long shelf life. He'll be as good as his linemates. Chychrun reminds me of Bryan Fogarty. Million dollar tools, but a five cent toolbox. Of all the top guys in this draft that have bust potential I would call Chychrun the guy to bust hardest. Juolevi reminds me more of Lubo Visnovsky. Probably be a pretty good player, but I don't see anything more than some of the players we already have in the system. This really is turning into a draft where there are three great prospects and then a whole bunch that could be good, but come with warts you have to accept and hope they work past.

Nylander isn't my favorite prospect either, and I am hoping the Flames draft someone else. With that being said though, I don't really agree with your argument and your Semin comparison.

Nylander slowed down in the season apparently due to an injury - apparently being the key word. However, he went 2 points per game in the playoffs - that is the definition of a player stepping up when needed I think. Also, in fairness to Semin, he was really pretty good until his wrist injury, and has just looked awful since then for the last few seasons - though you are right and I can't say he is a player that stepped up always when it mattered. Still, if the Flames could draft a pre-injury Semin with the 6th pick, I call it a home-run.

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

All very good points. I'm not convinced that Chychrun has poor hockey sense is the only thing. If he does then he certainly drops on the Flames list. But the variance in his rankings does not mean he lacks hockey sense, it could merely mean that some teams read his draft year differently than others do. Referring to the THN issue in particular they say, "the Sarnia blue liner didn't show many cracks in his game."

I think with Chychrun his 16 year old season had scouts expectations sky high for this year. And obviously he didn't quite meet the expectations. But does that make him a bad prospect for 5 years down the line? Or were the scouts expectations the problem? Doesn't seem like anyone thought he had a bad year but he had a mediocre end to it. I think it boils down to Chychrun having had a bit of a plateau in his development. Scouts like to see constant progress ideally. But if he started so far ahead of everybody based on his 16 year old year does a subpar draft year mean he lost his top 5 potential? I'm not sure about that part.

I know from having listened to many years of Tod Button interviews during and after the draft that the Flames scouts definitely look at the whole body of work. Button will reference watching a kid at 16. I wonder if the teams and scouts dropping Chychrun are guilty of putting too much stock into his most recent performance (U18) or are guilty of having sky high expectations for him this year. In both cases I could see the Flames as being the type of team that holds their opinion of him steady despite his play fluctuating a bit this year.

I also want to add to this that from what I have read and listened to, Chychrun was deployed a lot differently than Juolevi and Sergachev. Chychrun was given loads more ice-time and in all situations - some scouts felt that perhaps he was being overplayed and tired, and thus his 'mistakes' at times. They also say that perhaps he was learning how to play so many minutes regularly - i.e. the defencemen that play big minutes in the NHL know when to coast and save energy, and when not to.

He was also apparently battling through a bit of an injury.

Now, perhaps most of the scouting community knows all these tidbits (and I am assuming they do of course) and still feel that his problem was mostly IQ related and not due to exhaustion/injury, then I personally drop him below the other two defencemen. I just have no idea if those were real and legitimate excuses, or just an attempt to 'build him up'. Just thought I would mention those aspects since your post was speaking to his IQ.

Originally Posted by dammage79

RW isn't just an immediate need. It's like needing immediate surgery on your arm to save it but you opt to have surgery on your perfectly fine legs. Makes no sense.

And Treliving can address any position in UFA or trades, does that make any other prospect not worthy of being drafted? You draft to fill weaknesses in your organization too. It's utter nonsense to think otherwise.

What do the Flames have more of in their prospect base? LW? C? D? Or RW? Better yet, out of the prospect pool how many players in each position have potential to be top six?

There's only 1 in the RW department....1!! And hasnt even come close to proving he close to that yet. Top end RW depth is beyond terrible. It's the worst in the league. But hey let's not address that problem in the draft, let's try to get some older UFAs or try to make a trade when a perfectly free asset is sitting right there at our pick that has top line potential.


Edit: and who cares what EDM or VAN think. They suck. Benning is beyond terrible. And Chiarelli and the Oilers have yet to make a tough draft decision. And they still manage to eff it up. Yeah let's build a case for the Flames list using information from not only our closest rivals but also the two franchises who cannot do anything right. Derp

I am also against drafting for positional need as I think all you end up doing is fire-fighting. Remember when the Flames had 50 goal scorer Iginla, 30 goal scorer Bourque, and 20 goal scorer Moss all on the right side? Plus more guys? Within 2 seasons, that completely evaporated.

Remember when the Flames had Gaudreau, Baertschi, Glencross and Klimchuk (recently drafted)? That was the very deepest position organizationally. Now? I think they could use another couple LW's in the system, as there isn't a tonne of talent for the top 6.

Remember when the Flames went from one of the best bluelines in the league with Regehr, Bouwmeester, Phaneuf, Giordano and Sarich? Plus a multitude of decent looking defensive prospects like Negrin? It got decimated... then got built up relatively quickly. Flames entered the draft last year fairly weak in that area, and now I would say they are the strongest organizationally on defence as Hamilton dropped into their laps, Kylington dropped a LOT at the draft, and Andersson also dropped quite a bit (given his pre-season ranking in the top 10 on some lists). It is extremely difficult to foresee any of that happening.

Drafting for need is a sign I think that a management team has no long-term philosophy or vision. I always think you take the best prospect available, or if it is a tie, then you can select for organizational need.

I guess it really comes down to how someone perceives the draft. I look at it as the best way in adding value to an organization. The more value each prospect carries, the more value the organization has. If a positional need arises, the Flames can always trade from a position of strength to one of weakness.

I actually like how Burke views the draft - Defencemen over forwards, centers over wingers. In terms of value, that is essentially the ranking you see within trades. Wingers are the ones that are often let-go and traded away when teams hit cap issues. They are the first casualties and are either let go, or traded. Teams do their best to hold onto defencemen and centers, and only trade them for premium prices.

Now, if the BPA is Nylander, or Keller (who I think will be a winger), then by all means I hope the Flames draft said player on their list. It doesn't matter if a prospect plays a 'more valuable' or 'superior position' if said prospect doesn't even make the NHL of course. But again, that is why a team has to pick the BPA - to reduce the risk of busts. Draft for organizational need, and you run the risk of taking a lesser player to fill a hole, but because he is a lesser player he has an even smaller chance of making the NHL and adding value to the organization.

The one time in the last few years where I was hoping the Flames would pick for organizational need was with Laine over Mathews if the Flames won the 1st overall pick - but that was more to do with that gap being (IMO) fairly small, and Laine's other attributes that I think are missing on the Flames team (size and physicality in the top 6 to go along with an amazing skill-set). Toronto would be foolish to pick Laine over Mathews since they don't have the organizational center depth to do it (Marner looks good, but unproven - and might play wing, ditto for Nylander - though one of those two will for sure end up being a lights-out 2nd line center, with the other transitioning to be a very strong winger given a scenario where they draft Mathews). If they draft Laine, then both Nylander and Marner HAVE to both hit.

Just my two-cents anyways.