[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Five-hole

Man you really have an axe to grind with Tkachuk. You'd have to have blinders on not to notice his skill plays in that video. You said "I know it's a Marner video and I'm trying to remember that" but it seems like you've completely forgotten it.

No axe to grind with Tkachuk, I just don't think he's that good. I think people get all hot and bothered over him because he scored a boatload of points playing with the two best players in the OHL. I thought Max Jones showed as much as Tkachuk when he was on the line. But then again, when you have two of the best players in the league on your line, and you play on a league powerhouse, it is pretty easy to look good from time-to-time. I am just not sold that Tkachuk does anything on that line that any number of players would not replicate with fair opportunity.

Never mind that Marner and Dvorak are 1 and 2 years older.

Irrelevant point. Tkachuk's skills have little to do with his age. We're talking about what should make Tkachuk a top five pick. Will he be a successful NHL player? Maybe the question to ask yourself is this. What do you think is going to happen when Marner and Dvorak shuffle off to Toronto and Arizona next season? Do you think Tkachuk is going to repeat this performance?

See, there's the cold harsh slap of reality. How would Tkachuk do on his own? How is he going to do without two of the best players in the OHL on his line? Well, the 8 goals he scored without Marner's direct involvement seems to be telling. Bottom line is Tkachuk doesn't have anything elite about him. He doesn't have great foot speed. He doesn't have a great shot. He doesn't have great puck skills. He doesn't do anything exceptional. The one thing he does well is get to the front of the net. The junior ranks are littered with players whose best skill was using their larger frame.

If your claim is that they could put anyone out with Marner and Dvorak and they'd do just as well, then why is it Tkachuk the majority of the time? And why does he have way more points than those other guys you mentioned?

Maybe the coach wanted to spread the scoring around and have an effective 2nd line? He tried Tkachuk off that line and he didn't score. Jones was on that line for a short time and scored, but continued to score without Dvorak and Marner. See, there's a telling stat. Jones had almost as many goals as Tkachuk, playing on a 2nd line and without the two best players in the OHL.

I'm just naturally very skeptical of guys that rack up huge numbers playing with two elite players. Just because those other two guys are elite doesn't necessarily make the last guy elite. I try and look at these kids to see who has the skills to be a NHL player, because you need specific skills to be a NHL player. You especially need to be able to skate and think at the NHL level. In Tkachuk I don't see a junior player with any elite skills. Guys like that scare me.

I'm not suggesting that Tkachuk is any where near the Bob Maudie level of leeching off his line mates, but I think his production is grossly inflated which is affecting people's judgement of his skill set. I think they are looking at the player and dreaming of him lining up next to Gaudreau and Monahan and project what they hope he'll be rather than evaluating him on what he is. If you judge him on his skill set he doesn't add up to the level of player his points lead you to believe he is. That is why I am extremely skeptical of Tkachuk and would have him down a draft list to middle of the first round and not discussing him as a top five pick. It seems every few drafts there is some kid that comes along that gets pumped up and drafted early because of his numbers and size advantage, but lacks those elite skills (Dal Colle, Virtanen, Connolly, Glennie, etc.). I don't want to be the team that selects that player. I think Tkachuk is that player in this draft because his point totals exceed the sum of his parts.