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Originally Posted by sworkhard
Yes, it's true that not everyone will have an ID, even if they are free, but most of the currently disenfranchised group of people will have one in that case, and cost and effort will no longer be an excuse for not having one. Today, those are valid reasons, which is why hundreds of thousands are not able to vote due to voter id restrictions. Reasonably, difficulty in getting to the polling stations (a real problem in some places in America) will become a bigger problem than not having an id if such a program was implemented. I don't have a problem with putting a tiny bit of responsibility on people, even if they are poor. Further, while people of all classes lose ids all the time, I doubt this will disproportionately affect the poorest as these cards would be used all the time for access to government services, bank accounts, etc (which would in turn, make it much easier for them to get another ID if they lose it).
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I'm at a loss as to what your argument is here. ID is helpful for other things? OK. I agree.
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It changes the argument from hundreds of thousands of people not being able to vote to hundreds of people who lost their ID within a couple weeks of the election not being able to vote (and procedures could be created to accommodate those with a temporary id if there is a wait time for a new one)
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No, you have no idea how many more people would keep their ID. Firstly, how do they recieve it? Mail? Lots will not get then as where do you mail it to? Their last known address? How many people that don't have IDs still reside at their last known address? Then you're assuming that when people get them they'll just keep them or replace them when they've lost them. Many won't. If you're allowing a separate way to vote if you've lost your ID, why wouldn't these devious double voters do that?
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And yes, I agree it's a spectrum. However since it's a spectrum, it's by definition not a dichotomy (since neither of the 2 extremes must be held to), but a trade-off. Moreover, it's closer to a trichotomy than a dichotomy. You can give everyone Id's, eliminate voter fraud, and disenfranchise a few people who lose their id's, or eliminate voter fraud and disenfranchise a great many who can't afford Id's (due to cost or effort), or allow potential voter fraud and disenfranchise almost no-one in terms of voting access. Of course, you can provide Id's and eliminate voter id requirements, but that's irrelevant since the same end is achieved without Id's in that case.
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The decision to enact or not enact voter id laws is a dichotomy. What's the third option? The impact is on a spectrum.
Even if you're down to hundreds (which would still be in the hundred thousands in Canada, but I'll accept your numbers) is still vastly higher than the number of fraudulent votes. So it's still an awful idea. The most common voter fraud (double voting at multiple stations) wouldn't even be solved by your elaborate mail order id proposition.
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Of these, I would start by providing free Id's since a great many people are disenfranchised even if they can vote since lack of government photo Id makes access to things like government programs and bank accounts much more difficult. Further, it would eliminate the political purpose of reducing the other parties voter base behind these requirements resulting in their inevitable removal over the long term if they are as worthless as people say.
I haven't done the math, but if providing photo id's allows 1-2% of this group to become productive, tax paying members of society, I'd guess that the program will pay for itself. But then, I don't buy the idea that most poor people are lazy or incapable of acting on the options they recognize as available for them in order to improve their lives.
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Nobody said that most poor people are lazy. Most lazy people are poor though, no? Are you suggesting that we tell them if they don't stop being lazy we take away their right to vote?
Here's some reading on the giant voter fraud problem:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...d-voter-fraud/