[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

What's the point? We're going to lose a lot of games down the stretch. It won't be Engelland's fault exclusively will it?

Engelland's physicality didn't win us the game. Nothing else he did on the ice helped us. I don't believe in moral victories but I way outplaying the other team in a loss ahead of out-physicalling the other team in a loss. There have been great, soft teams and terrible, tough teams. I'd rather be a great, tough team but I way the great part ahead of the tough part.

Agreed. I'd like Wotherspoon or Jokipakka to try and play with Hamilton. Dropping Engelland out of the top 4 and scratching him aren't the same thing.

The problem is, Engelland-Nakladal will likely just be an awful pairing if Engelland-WIdeman has shown us anything. And Nakladal is way more useful to us right now on the bottom pair. It's not always about a player playing badly and deserving to sit, it's about which six players give us the best chance to win.

Removing the only guy who can physically attempt to disrupt the cycle isn't a winning idea long term IMO.

Are we watching the same Engelland? When does Engelland disrupt the cycle? He's practically a 4th forward for the other team on the cycle. Giordano disrupts the cycle. Wideman even disrupts the cycle, though he's kind of got low IQ. Brodie disrupts the cycle. Hamilton disrupts the cycle. Engelland contributes to the cycle.

I think you underestimate the physical defensive defensemen role in the NHL.

When Smid was playing well this season, I was proposing Smid be tried ahead of Russell in our top 4. I'm not against physical defensive defensemen and yes I'm aware they're not going to have ideal possession stats. I want nothing more than for Pat Sieloff to "click" and be our #4, he's exactly what we need. But being a physical defensive defenseman isn't an excuse for being devoid of a functional breakout pass.

Not surprising given your emphasis on numbers and how poor the possession metrics usually are for that type of player. Just the other day I saw someone try to argue Marc Staal wasn't very good because of his metrics but he's a great defensive defensemen who you can win with in this league.

That, or he's a terrible defensive defenseman standing in front of Henrik Lundqvist, and would be out of the league in front of an average goalie.

Roles and usefulness in preventing goals are very much related. I'm just surprised you don't see the obvious link between dressing physical defensive defensemen and trying to prevent goals scored by big, strong forwards.

I believe in having a capable crease clearer. But I believe in capable as the important part because without that it's just a matter of "when" not "if".

Balance is good on every roster. But give me a Brian Campbell type over a Deryk Engelland any day. I value players who can break up the cycle with their stickwork and then get the puck out of the D-zone quickly ahead of players who constantly give the puck away in the D-zone and rely on their goalie to stand on his head.

In our division? Engelland is probably the only player on our team who has the strength and mass to even think about hitting/moving guys from the front of the net like Perry, Getzlaf, Lucic, Kopitar, Thornton, Ward, Kesler, etc. We struggle against big, cycling teams as it is.

Engelland aesthetically may resembles some of those players, but guys like Stoner, Braun, Despres, McNabb etc are just much more effective for their teams. He isn't a solution. At least not in Hartley's system, maybe he's a solution in a better system but that's not this one, and Hartley isn't about to change his system.