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Originally Posted by rubecube
This seems to happen in most of these discussions I have with Cliff. He trots the old "Well look at how much better we are than other cultures" argument. And it's weird to me because it's one that neither I nor anyone I know and respect actually tries to argue.
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I really, really think it's a response to the sense that you're catastrophizing. In other words, the way you frame the argument makes it seem like this is a massive crisis. The phrase "rape culture" is
designed to be brazen and over-the-top, and that's why it's caught on: that kind of thing
works. It does get attention. But some of the reaction is, "hold the goddamn phone a minute. You say we live in a "rape culture", but in this culture, rape is viewed as the single worst thing a person can do. The mere insinuation that someone is a sex offender is life-shattering. We hate rapists. We hate the mere idea of rapists. Obviously, we put them in prison. So how is "rape culture" accurate"? Then they go on to say, look, if you want a rape culture, look at country X, where women can't tell their family about marital rape because that would shame them, and so on. And suddenly, you're having an argument that no one actually cares about, and it's totally unproductive.
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I think it's more personal experience in the area that leaves me a bit raw and quick to escalate on the subject.
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Well, that never helps. Given that you recognize this, I'd say, take it into account in your responses and adjust for it. I don't mean to sound patronizing or anything; I have the same thing on some topics and I really think that CBT-related thought exercises help.
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The thing is, I don't think the cultural changes have to be anything drastic or extreme. Simply calling out your buddies if they're doing stuff like preying on intoxicated women is a step in the right direction. Examining the cultural conceptions of gender and addressing ones that are outdated and harmful. None of that is really rocket science or particularly controversial. It just takes a bit of effort.
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Yeah and I bet if you put it in exactly these terms, everyone's nodding to themselves. Is this too much to ask? No, it really isn't. But there's a reason I bolded that one point you made: that's the sort of thing that needs to be done in a less aggressive, draw-the-battle-lines way than you often do. And you're not alone; it happens a ton. Especially online, where witch hunting and superlative virtue signaling on this stuff is almost a cultural pastime.