[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Nope. Are you really suggesting that someone advocating for rape to be legalized has any kind of popular support?

If dude and other PUAs are able to make a living off of giving seminars where they basically teach other dudes methods of coercion and manipulation to get women to sleep with them, and their customers know ahead of time that this is Roosh's stance, I'd say it has a level of support that is unacceptable.

I've seen and heard of both things carried out by men and women. I've had my ass grabbed numerous times. Sex and drunkenness is a murky and difficult subject. I will say that my wife and I were both drunk when we first had sex, and that's pretty common among people I know.

I probably shouldn't have specified a gender in that post because who is committing the assault is irrelevant to the point I'm making. And I agree with you regarding sex and drunkeness, but there are absolutely instances where people have used alcohol for predatory means and then bragged about it. The PUA community is notorious for it, but I've also been in enough locker rooms to know it's not exclusive to them.

What exactly is that work? Just as we will never have a world without rape, we will never have a world without lying about rape. Just as we'll never have a world without lying about theft or murder. Some people are awful. And our courts do not - and cannot - give accusers the benefit of the doubt when it comes to allegations of serious crimes.

But we as the public, who have the capacity to provide support for victims, are not our courts and aren't required to choose between compassion for accusers and punishment for the accused. Is it not possible to have compassion, while reserving judgement?

I guess I want to know what the conditions are under which Canada will no longer be called a 'rape culture.'

That's a pretty complex question with a whole bunch of different answers. For me personally, I'd like to see a lot less victim-blaming to start with.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I think, Rube, that the issue is that this subject is hard enough to talk about as it is without the umbrage that you generally take. It's already really hard to discuss this stuff objectively, because it's inherently a very tense, emotional discussion no matter what.

For me, the point you respond to - that men don't boast about raping girls - strikes me as intuitively right. I've never heard a guy brag about raping a girl, and I certainly don't see it regularly. If I did, I'd expect that to be considered a totally unacceptable thing by basically everyone, and that depending on the circumstances it might result in police involvement. So to respond with "uhhhhh.... really?" - as if that was a totally bewildering statement by Cliff - isn't maybe the best way to deal with it... I mean, "Roosh V" is something that sounds vaguely familiar, but if you hadn't told me who he was I would have had no idea.

Do people explicitly brag about raping women? I mean some probably do but it's not common, but my point was that people brag about acts that essentially constitute sexual assault because we as a culture are accepting of these acts when they're put in certain terms, and that needs to change.