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Originally Posted by MattyC
All good points, however I would say:
- I think you're clinging to the Rule of Two too much, as I think it is pretty obvious that both sides have the need to evolve and change (the Sith on their rule, and the Jedi on their discipline).
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The rule of two is Canon when it comes to the Sith, and out of everything prequel wise it makes the most sense, since Sith are covetous of power and its only logical that a Sith Lord taking on multiple apprentices is going to be betrayed and murdered by both of them. Even in non-canon from video games to books, from both the past and the future, the Sith aren't the anti-jedi where there are a lot of them working in harmony, whenever there have been large groups of Sith they have destroyed themselves.
If you read the Phantom Menace book it takes about why the Sith and Darth Bane went under the rule of two.
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Originally Posted by MattyC
- If Plageuis did end up as a Force ghost, I'm not sure that he would qualify as a Sith under the rule of two, especially if his presence was unknown to other Dark Force users, as it is not a power they are in tune with.
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Except that he would be firmly emeshed in the Force as a Dark shadow within it, surely Palpatine would have picked that up since he was again, the embodiment of the Dark Side and its most powerful user, his key power was that he could see the currents of the Force which gave him fore thought.
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Originally Posted by MattyC
- The rules for Dark Force ghost could be different than that of Light Force ghosts (is there any precedent? If not, they could explain it however they want).
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In EU there were darkside ghosts, in Canon as explained int he prequel books, the Sith can't become ghosts or become part of the Force because it goes against their nature of holding onto power and life out of greed.
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Originally Posted by MattyC
- Just because Plageuis may have sacrificed himself for the sake of immortality, doesn't mean it was selfless, or needed him to gift his death to Palpatine in any way. Maybe the sacrifice can be seen as him purposely training an apprentice that so desired ultimate power that it was inevitable that he would kill Plageuis. And Plageuis' foresight to this, and to it's strengthening impact on the Sith, made it a sacrifice for the Dark Side. That doesn't mean that he "let" Palpatine kill him, just purposely made him strong enough so that he could.
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Sorry, I don't buy that, Sith has to take the crown of Dark Lord of the Sith, its something that wouldn't be gifted like that, and Plageuis would fight it tooth and nail. Where Plageuis failed or showed weakness was that he didn't see the nature of Sidious who waited for Plageuis at his weakest and murdered him. If you read Dark Lord at one point Palpatine mused about this and saw it as a major weakness in terms of vulnerability and trained himself not to sleep.
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Originally Posted by MattyC
Again, I think you're getting bogged down in what has been established as the traditions of each side. They have changed dramatically, even over the course of prequels and the OT. There are so many ways to interpret all the things that are said by each side, that Abrams and Co. can pretty much add whatever lore they want to it, as long as they have feasible reasons for doing so (IE NOT midichlorins). Seeing as the Sith didn't always operate with the Rule of Two, I don't see why they would have to going forward.
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There's no indication that its changed, and I would think that Star Wars purists would crap all over it if Abrams rewrote Sith Lore.
At the end of the day in the purist sense, the Sith line died at the end of Return of the Jedi, that's what allowed Anakin to forefill the prophesy. The Sith represented the imbalance in the Force that tipped it towards the darkside. When Sidious died and Vader died, those deaths took all of that Sith knowledge and power with it.
The Plageuis thing is a fan generated theory based on the similarities of the music between the opera house theme and Snoke's theme, and the line that the Supreme Leader is Wise.
When you look at the idea of things outside of the movie.
Kasden in a panel at comic con had no idea who Darth Plagueis was
About 37 minutes in
On top of that they originally tossed around the idea of making Snoke a girl.
Andy Serkas also in an interview stated that Snoke was very much a new character in the universe.
I keep thinking that if they do a reveal in a movie, where Snoke stands up and says "No, I am Darth Plageuis" that the average film going is going to go huh and its going to fall flatter then a fart in church. The Sidious/Palpatine thing worked because you didn't have to devolve into this deep backstory on the villain.
Personally and I've mentioned the story points above, I have my doubts that Snoke is Plageuis, he's the villain in the sense that in the original trilogy the Emperor was the villain but he was there as the foil, not the main villain.