Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch
Not hammering on you this is a great conversation. But Plageuis doing that would go against the whole concept of the rule of two.
Two there are no more, no less, one to embody power and one to crave it.
The reason why the Apprentice needs to kill the Master is to basically prove that he has surpassed his master in terms of power and learning. For Plageuis to sacrifice himself would be even worse for making Palpatine look weak.
A Sith spends his hole life gathering power and learning to himself, a Master will share this information with his apprentice but not willingly or easily, forcing the Apprentice to strive and even surpass his master to the point where the Master no longer has anything to offer. Then the final test is killing your master, taking on his mantle and then training a new apprentice who will eventually get stronger.
This is so to speak the way of the Sith and how they evolved to become more powerful then even Yoda.
When Yoda was fighting Palpatine in the senate he came to the realization (ROTJ novelization) that he had been preparing to fight the Sith from a thousand years ago, and they had evolved and become more powerful and at the end of the day Yoda just didn't have it.
On top of that Yoda realized that Obi-Wan who was very powerful in the Force, would have gotten crushed by a true Sith Lord and that's why he sent him after Vader who hadn't received any Sith training to that point and was between worlds.
Anyways going back to your point, I can't see where Plageuis would have surrendered or sacrificed his power for his apprentice, he would have wanted Sidious to seize the mantle and prove that he was powerful enough to become the Sith Lord.
Also in the book Plageuis (EU) he mused and then Palpatine mused later that Plageuis was working towards immortality and wouldn't need an apprentice, that's one of the motivators on why Palpatine moved to kill him before he discovered the secret, thus giving the big lie.
Also in EU they mused that the one who had discovered the secret was a Sith named Darth Gravid and the secret was lost when Gravid turned to the lightside and destroyed all knowledge of immortality.
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All good points, however I would say:
- I think you're clinging to the Rule of Two too much, as I think it is pretty obvious that both sides have the need to evolve and change (the Sith on their rule, and the Jedi on their discipline).
- If Plageuis did end up as a Force ghost, I'm not sure that he would qualify as a Sith under the rule of two, especially if his presence was unknown to other Dark Force users, as it is not a power they are in tune with.
- The rules for Dark Force ghost could be different than that of Light Force ghosts (is there any precedent? If not, they could explain it however they want).
- Just because Plageuis may have sacrificed himself for the sake of immortality, doesn't mean it was selfless, or needed him to gift his death to Palpatine in any way. Maybe the sacrifice can be seen as him purposely training an apprentice that so desired ultimate power that it was inevitable that he would kill Plageuis. And Plageuis' foresight to this, and to it's strengthening impact on the Sith, made it a sacrifice for the Dark Side. That doesn't mean that he "let" Palpatine kill him, just purposely made him strong enough so that he could.
Again, I think you're getting bogged down in what has been established as the traditions of each side. They have changed dramatically, even over the course of prequels and the OT. There are so many ways to interpret all the things that are said by each side, that Abrams and Co. can pretty much add whatever lore they want to it, as long as they have feasible reasons for doing so (IE NOT midichlorins). Seeing as the Sith didn't always operate with the Rule of Two, I don't see why they would have to going forward.